One can see that in this book pessimism, or, to put it more clearly, nihilism, is taken to be the truth. But truth is not taken to be the highest standard of value, still less the highest power. The will to appearance, illusion, deception, becoming and change (to objective deception) is here taken to be more profound, more primordial, more metaphysical than the will to truth, reality and being - the latter is merely a form of the will to illusion. — Nietzsche, Kritische Gesamtausgabe: div. 8, III, 318-20
But I find it really interesting that Nietzsche is willing to concede the "truth" of pessimism while still attacking it. — John Doe
I think Nietzsche is important. I think he's on to something. I don't think Nietzsche is where the analysis should stop, though. Nietzsche should be integrated into a broader pessimistic worldview that includes things like antinatalism, in my opinion. There is nothing incoherent, contra Nietzsche, with life devaluing life. It may very well be that life can enter a stage of maturation where it is able to understand itself, and thus deny itself. — darthbarracuda
So I know it's certainly possible that this thread is of no interest to anyone. But I find it really interesting that Nietzsche is willing to concede the "truth" of pessimism while still attacking it. This may be a rhetorical move (e.g. even if Schopenhauer were right it wouldn't matter) or it may point to something more spiritual and consistent in his thought.
It strikes me as interesting to ask in the context of contemporary antinatalism what bearing people think that truth has on a pessimistic worldview, and whether there might yet be some value in denying philosophical pessimism despite its terrible truth. — John Doe
So I see Nietzsche as understanding pessimism to be 'self-immolating', as it were, where the test of it's truth is how lightly it can be borne, how easily it can be engaged with (just like the test of the eternal return: " — StreetlightX
However, what is more disheartening are philosophies (pessimistic or not) that have only isolated/closed off events. Nothing is really related in any necessary way. All is contingent. That is another possibility. — schopenhauer1
it is neither perfect nor beautiful, nor noble, nor does it wish to become any of these things; it does not by any means strive to imitate man. None of our aesthetic and moral judgments apply to it. Nor does it have any instinct for self-preservation or any other instinct; and it does not observe any laws either. Let us beware of saying that there are laws in nature. There are only necessities: there is nobody who commands, nobody who obeys, nobody who trespasses. ... The total character of the world ... is in all eternity chaos." (The Gay Science) — StreetlightX
This seems an indirect attack on ideas like Will in Schop's philosophy. — schopenhauer1
I read it that way too (among other things), and agree with it. — StreetlightX
[Nietzsche] considers that a person "addicted" to truth is ugly and weak. They can't "rise up" and affirm life. They can't "rise up" and affirm life. There is no art, there is no journey, there is no ambition or passion or any of that. This is why Nietzsche criticizes Christianity, Platonism, Socrates, Buddhism, etc for being "nihilistic" and death-worshipping. — darthbarracuda
Nietzsche wasn't exactly the most impressive person all things considered. His philosophy of the Ubermensch looks more like a fantasy day-dream than something that can be seriously put into practice and lived. — darthbarracuda
Nietzsche should be integrated into a broader pessimistic worldview that includes things like antinatalism, in my opinion. — darthbarracuda
Nietzsche seems to think that truth is illusion — John Doe
one of Nietzsche's recurring motifs is that nihilism, taken to the limit, effectively undermines itself [...] and that the real problem with nihilism is that it draws the wrong conclusions about its own procedures: not pessimsim, but unburdened affirmation is what you get once you leap through the fire of nihilism to get to the other side (hence also Nietzsche's self-declaration in the WTP of himself as a 'perfect nihilist'). — StreetlightX
And this jibes with some of Nietzsche's other comments on truth, in which - far from simply devaluing it, he treats it as a measure of spirit: ""Something might be true, even if it were also harmful and dangerous in the highest degree; indeed, it might be part of the essential nature of existence that to understand it completely would lead to our own destruction. The strength of a person’s spirit would then be measured by how much “truth” he could tolerate, or more precisely, to what extent he needs to have it diluted, disguised, sweetened, muted"; — StreetlightX
[M]aybe people can [too] easily succomb to pessimism if they knew the terrible truth — Aleksander Kvam
could he mean that truth is false? — Aleksander Kvam
nor grounded in something transcendent. — John Doe
could he mean that truth is false? — K
We are really destined to be "over the rainbow" in a place which does not exist. — TheWillowOfDarkness
I'm not sure Nietzsche really holds to any unequivocal notion of truth - — StreetlightX
(cf. the famous: "What then is truth? A movable host of metaphors, metonymies, and anthropomorphisms: in short, a sum of human relations which have been poetically and rhetorically intensified, transferred, and embellished, and which, after long usage, seem to a people to be fixed, canonical, and binding. Truths are illusions which we have forgotten are illusions — they are metaphors that have become worn out and have been drained of sensuous force, coins which have lost their embossing and are now considered as metal and no longer as coins.) — StreetlightX
- and that he holds to a more or less pragmatic understanding of truth where truth simply is a variable plank in a larger assemblage of elements that allow one to live in some way or another (truth is as truth does, as it were). Raymond Geuss has a wonderful article (in his recent Changing the Subject) where he tries to disentangle some of the different ways in which Nietzsche talks about truth, depending on the context in which those discussions take place. — StreetlightX
Any attempt to treat Nietzsche on truth would need, I think, to attend to the multiplicity of these differing approaches. — StreetlightX
He did believe that even truth is allways a falsification to some extend. I'd recomment to read "on truth and lies in an extra-moral sense" to understand where he's coming from, it's not that long... — ChatteringMonkey
But then he clearly also believes in some sense of truth, as is evident in numerous passages — ChatteringMonkey
We begin with the most crude falsifications of the world, which then can eventially be refined into something that is progressively more accurate or less wrong. — ChatteringMonkey
Also note that truth and untruth, is not to be confounded with 'the will to truth' and 'the will to decieve' which is what he is talking about in the quote in the opening post. — ChatteringMonkey
In short, I doubt that for Nietzsche the "What is Truth?" question allows for a singular answer, pragmatic or postmodern. This paragraph is certainly indicative of Nietzsche's views about how particular truths, particular manifestations of the will to truth, etc. function under certain (sickly) conditions. But I don't think he's making a strong claim about truth beyond (like Wittgenstein) attempting to diagnose how truths function in particular circumstances... Nietzsche seems to be aiming for a complex understanding of the multivocality of truth (and the ethics of truth) that nevertheless does not equivocate or reject truth. — John Doe
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