Is your outrage unavoidable or more justifiable than others' outrage? — Πετροκότσυφας
I understand from the OP that for you victimisition and outrage is something bad — Πετροκότσυφας
So, your outrage might be a case in point which helps us explore how victimhood and outrage has become an object of obsession in contemporary culture. — Πετροκότσυφας
At the same kind you acknowledged that you're doing the same thing which you find problematic and I was wondering why you do that. For example, it might be unavoidable or inescapable for some reason. Or, you might be entitled to it more than others. — Πετροκότσυφας
At its base, this seems to stem from scoring social points which is normal in human cultures but there is something darker and more negative about what you are describing isnt there? The social points are being scored in a game of us vs them, rank tribalism. The harder you attack the more virtuous you are and the more points you score. The more points you are trying to score the more you become enslaved to the group think, and dependant on scoring, its cyclical and escalating. These groups will quickly turn on dissenters, because of course they are awarded social points for doing so. — DingoJones
Im not exactly sure what exactly you are offering for discussion here, but your coments seem accurate to me. There is a problem, and its clearly firmly entrenched. — DingoJones
Since you're able to avoid unhealthy and unwarranted frustration, while the body politic as a whole isn't, it remains to be seen how you're different. — Πετροκότσυφας
In this difference lies the reason why people have become inculcated with an obsession for their own outrage (and you haven't). There also lie the instructions of how to avoid unhealthy and unwarranted frustration. — Πετροκότσυφας
Yeah, it's more of a master key than a key. If it doesn't fit your lock, remains to be seen. We will still have learnt a lot, as I explained above. — Πετροκότσυφας
Sure, that would be nice — Πετροκότσυφας
Honestly I think people are already waking up to it. The groups themselves are in the minority and people are wising up to the dangers of this sort of toxic virtue signalling, im so tempted to call it a fad and a fading one at that....but....it has infected our academia, it permeates our media intake in subtle and not so subtle ways and although people may have noticed and developed disdain they still dont seem to see the danger. — DingoJones
Your outrage seems entirely justified to me, and theirs certainly does not. — DingoJones
Haven't worked out what I think about the issue of the OP yet, but I really enjoyed the homage in the last line to the most famous poem ever by a Canadian. — andrewk
In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields. — John McCrae
These suffice for now. Instead, you can choose out of those the ones that you consider prime examples of what you find problematic, point to the actual incidents and explain how and why they are problematic. — Πετροκότσυφας
Politics is about power. There is power in moving people -- be it fear, patriotism, or outrage the political agent will speak to whatever is moving people at the time.
Competition for attention isn't something new to social media. In some ways it actually opens up the playing field in competing for attention relative to television. And outrage is certainly not new. I mean, think of the children ;).
What's changed isn't the emotions in play, but what the emotions are directed towards -- I'd also say that we are more aware of a difference in values now than we were (or perhaps it's even more divided now, and it's not just our awareness) — Moliere
I don't think that people are unable to identify what is politically meaningful. It seems to me that people are largely set in their ways and they are not going to agree. There is a difference in values, and a stark one at that. I don't think this is the result of outrage-saturation, though. Why would I? Isn't outrage just another of the passions that motivate people to move? And aren't there other emotions which are appealed to in the competition for attention? Even now? — Moliere
...And if outrage is what works then why not? — Moliere
Some day we may be so lucky as to have more fear and and disgust instead of outrage. ;) But one does not become politically motivated and go through the hassle without what are painful, and sometimes ugly, emotions. The sausage is good, but the process isn't the prettiest thing to look at. — Moliere
Compare the treatment John F. Kennedy's, Bill Clinton's, and Donald Trump's sex lives received: Kennedy's promiscuous sex life was considered off limits by the 1960s press establishment. Bill Clinton's affairs received extensive, but reasonably restrained mainline media coverage. Trump's sex life news and views is a three-ring circus. Much of the change is owing to the Internet and the large social media corporations which, unlike the old mass media, are focused on the traffic volume on its sites. The old media like the Chicago Tribune and New York Times had a clear and definite stake in what they printed. (They still do, but it matters less.) Outrage, sturm and drang, and high velocity bullshit make for big social media traffic. — Bitter Crank
What happens now is rapid amplification of resonant outrages. (Resonant doesn't equal reasonable, of course.) And it isn't only the left that is outraged; the right too is outraged. Everybody is outraged because we too are interested in traffic volume, and mere irritation doesn't garner attention.
So I am saying that media is shaping the message. Outrage and non-negotiable demands fly, where modest proposals land with a thud. — Bitter Crank
every non-white/non-male person suffers from racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry and oppression — VagabondSpectre
Given how perverse the incentive structure seems to have become, can we ever grow out of our newfound/newly imposed obsession with outrage? — VagabondSpectre
The point of the thread is to explore how victimhood and outrage has become an object of obsession in contemporary culture, and in doing so altered it. — VagabondSpectre
Somebody on one of the late night talk shows called these sorts of glittering generalities "deepities". They sound a lot profounder than they are. Another example of a deepity is "There is no such thing as an illegal human." Sounds good -- and is even true, but nobody has called "humans" illegal. Illegal aliens, illegal immigrants, illegal this, that, and the other thing, but no "illegal humans". — Bitter Crank
I think a lot of the outrage, sturm and drang, incessant meme'ery, and so on are a result of the media. It isn't a plot; it's McLuhan's principle that the medium is the message. The high traffic social media are really narcissistic MEdia--emphasis on ME--and not so much social.
Facebook, twitter, and the like are designed to amplify the personal, so that's what people do with it. Recorded sound, film, radio, and television have various effects on the way we experience life. Those media are mostly 1 way: we receive; we do not send.
The Internet/WWW/browsers/email changed that. Now we could receive and send. This forum is a receive and send site. Philosophy Talk (on the radio) is 99.999% receive and about .001% send (the one or two calls and two or three e-mail questions they feature on the show). Send and receive is much more interesting, generally.
So, until such time as social media stops being MEdia. stops doing what the Internet is good at promoting (connecting), or until we run out of electricity, it will probably continue to generate waves of bullshit outrage. — Bitter Crank
I'd be interesting in concrete examples. I'd also be interested in concrete examples of non-misleading facades on the issue of racism/sexism. — Πετροκότσυφας
It's just modern discourse in the age of tweets and simplified communication.
It's not that everybody has gotten to be more angry and less tolerant. With outrage you make the case that there's nothing to discuss here, your side is right and the other totally is not only wrong in every kind of way, but simply goes against simple reasoning or basic morals.
Hence you don't say that many people disagree. You make it into a bigger thing by calling that people are outraged. — ssu
Nice job, the opening post is most excellent.
It seems to me that political correctness in general is, in part, a channeling of some ancient psychological forces that can no longer be expressed in the usual manner. In the past if we wanted to feel superior to someone Jews, blacks and gays and other traditional victim groups were readily available and easily abused.
These groups have largely been taken off the table as targets (at least as compared to the past) but the urges which caused us to abuse them in the first place have not magically gone away. So we're on the hunt for new targets.
One example might be the group some would call "white trash trailer park hillbillies", that is poor southern whites. Making a movie which poked fun at Jews, blacks and gays would get a movie producer in big trouble these days, but we have to make fun of somebody, so the trailer park folks receive our attention.
If we were Catholics we might say that the devil always finds a way to sneak in the back door of even the most well intended projects. — Jake
It's very difficult to disagree with the OP due to how it's framed. Everyone will agree that inappropriate emphasis should not be given to inappropriate outrage, and everyone will agree that appropriate emphasis should be given to appropriate outrage. As eloquently as you've defended your position VagabondSpectre, it boils down to the selective use of a tautology as a cudgel - or as an inert lamentation. Something like a political Barnum statement, people will fill up the OP with examples which are great for them; everyone can agree entirely within their own selection criterion; which ultimately reflects their personal preferences and ideological standpoint. — fdrake
So yeah, as much as social media can be little more than a vector for invective, they're a universal message amplifier by design. If we're apportioning blame to Twitter for normalising outrage about Donald Trump's sexual misconduct, I'd put a hefty chunk of the blame on the way the algorithms work. Hashtag Trump aggregates all the nuances into an already dismissible narrative (FAKE NEWS, like what our OPs brand inappropriate outrage), and longer messages (what, 250 characters is long?) are harder to hear at the same time as their echoes. — fdrake
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