• Kranky
    71
    How can I enjoy things if I cannot be certain they are happening?

    For example :
    I'm sitting watching a sunset.
    I think "wow this is pretty"
    I then remember I cannot be certain I'm actually watching this beautiful sunset, as it may not even be happening.

    How could I then continue to enjoy it?

    Would I just have to hope that it is?

    Would my underlying belief of it I thought the sunset was in fact real or not ultimately influence my enjoyment?
  • A Seagull
    615

    Just enjoy the sunset.
    It doesn't matter whether it is 'real' or not.
    The reality of the sunset {and most other things besides) is all you know, and most likely all you will ever know.
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Why would you care about certainty?
  • Kranky
    71


    Because without certainty, whats to say it's actually happening?

    Surely there would be as much chance that it is not?
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Because without certainty, whats to say it's actually happening?Kranky

    You're using "actually" as a substitute for "certainty" there, so that you're asking a vacuous question (In other words, you're just restating "without certainty, I don't have certainty").

    What's to say what's happening is experience/observation. You experience or observe a sunset, for example.
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    Re observing a sunset, say, and re thinking "this may not be happening," instead of worrying about certainty, you should ask yourself why would I believe that this may not be happening? You should need a good reason to believe that.

    The possibility that it's not happening is not a good reason. It's possible that it's happening, too.

    You have a pretty good reason to believe that it's happening--you're experiencing or observing it.

    You don't have certainty that it's happening, but who cares? Care about whether you have good reasons to believe whatever you believe. You don't need certainty.
  • Kranky
    71


    But the good reason (observing) is not certain either. It just appears to be a good reason.

    What is there to say that I'm not simply seeing something entirely different?
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    But the good reason (observing) is not certain either. It just appears to be a good reason.

    What is there to say that I'm not simply seeing something entirely different?
    Kranky

    Noting that the good reason is not certain is kind of dumb, because I didn't say that it was certain. I questioned the whole enterprise of desiring certainty, and I explicitly wrote "You don't have certainty that it's happening." Right after that, I wrote, "But who cares?"

    "What is there to say" is noting that it's possible that you're seeing something entirely different.

    I noted that.

    And I said, "The possibility that it's not happening is not a good reason."

    Why not?

    Because it's possible that it's happening, too.

    So you need a reason to believe other than mere possibility. On which side do you have a reason to believe that's something other than mere possibility?

    It should be obvious that I couldn't care less about certainty, and I don't think you should care about it, either.
  • Kranky
    71


    But with certainty things would be known.

    Without this, in my mind, there is as much chance the sunset is happening as there is that it is not.

    Yes, there are reasons which our senses may suggest it is happening. But these could be false.

    How can I enjoy a view that I cannot even confirm thatvI think I am watching?
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    But with certainty things would be known.Kranky

    There's no reason to require certainty for knowledge.

    Without this, in my mind, there is as much chance the sunset is happening as there is that it is not.Kranky

    Explain how you're doing a probability calculation.

    Yes, there are reasons which our senses may suggest it is happening. But these could be false.Kranky

    "These could be false" is possibility. I've addressed that already, but to address it again:

    "These could be false" is possible.

    "These could be true" is possible.

    "There are reasons that suggest it is happening" is something additional on the one side.

    Is there anything additional on the other side?

    If not, how are you arriving at the probability calculation you're arriving at?

    How can I enjoy a view that I cannot even confirm thatvI think I am watching?Kranky

    By not caring about something that there's no good reason to care about?
  • Kranky
    71


    Reasons why it is true:
    It may appear that it is happening.

    Reaaons why it is false:
    It may appear that it is not happening.

    If I can't be certain that it is happening, both reasons are equally valid? I may or may not be viewing the sunset. My thoughts may be false and I'm not even viewing it.

    This is so confusing, sorry
  • Streetlight
    9.1k
    Why would certainty be a condition of enjoyment? A bizarre connection,
  • Marchesk
    4.6k
    Turn it around. If you're being tortured, you're not going to worry about whether it's really happening. Pain has this nice property of driving skeptical thoughts away. So why not let pleasure do the same thing for you?
  • Terrapin Station
    13.8k
    It may appear that it is happening.Kranky

    So when you're watching a sunset it may appear that it is happening, but it may not appear?

    It seems like you're not familiar with the term "appear."
  • Sayon Liberty
    11
    Is your enjoyment of things based heavily on the certainty of their reality?
    Ex: Sex - do you enjoy it for the sensations or the chance that it is certain.
    Can you enjoy anything while while being certain it's fake? How about while unsure?

    If a fake sunset was indiscernible to you from a real one is just the added info that one did happen and the other didn't enough to make one enjoyable to you and the other not?

    I concede the added context of experiences being definitely fake or real can modify enjoyment but for something like [viewing a sunset] I don't see how. (any explanation would be appreciated)

    Q: "How can I enjoy things if I can't be certain they are happening?"

    A: If certainty is your prerequisite for enjoyment then you can't.
    A: If certainty is neither the prerequisite or the primary factor then you simply will.
  • A Seagull
    615

    Certainty is a state of mind.
    If you particularly seek certainty then you might try cultivating some myopia and blinkered or tunnel vision; a healthy dose of stupidity might help too.
  • Herg
    246
    I'm sitting watching a sunset.
    I think "wow this is pretty"
    I then remember I cannot be certain I'm actually watching this beautiful sunset, as it may not even be happening.

    How could I then continue to enjoy it?
    Kranky

    When you watch a movie, does the fact that what you are watching is not actually happening stop you enjoying it?

    No?

    Then why should the fact that the sunset may not actually be happening stop you enjoying it?
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