When the internet first truly impinged on my retarded consciousness (early in the 2000s), I had two instinctive and profound concerns, which have only increased, in breadth and depth, with the intervening years, to the point where I'm now driven to consider it, on the whole, a positively cancerous presence in our lives (quite beyond the latest backlash against its widespread, systemic, and increasingly devastating abuse). — Brian Jones
There are so many clichés and banalities about the internet – to your points, it is possible to add that there has been an ongoing and free exchange of ideas, technologies, and knowledge (in fact, you need to pay for all these). That the internetIs it not time to consider the possibility that the internet, like Freud’s airplane and Bell’s long-distance feeling, might in fact not be bringing us closer together (etc.), but only pretending to, and in the end doing quite the opposite? — Brian Jones
To stopwe must stop being informed and start forming well, again? — Brian Jones
I think this critique is a bit too extreme. For one free idea exchange is not limited by financial constraint - you have platforms like youtube, wikipedia, google, forums, reddit. that allow for open exposure. If anything political censorship, traditionalism, and conformist social pressure would be larger threats than financial restriction. Second there's a large body of work charting how modernization impacts social values and attitudes; for example see World values survey data comprised of social attitude and value surveys conducted in representative sample from ~55 countries as of 2014. They've been documenting since 80s. There is a general shift in the direction of more self-expressive, liberal and more rational-secularist vs traditionalist values over time. So the impact is real and not necessarily negative.There are so many clichés and banalities about the internet – to your points, it is possible to add that there has been an ongoing and free exchange of ideas, technologies, and knowledge (in fact, you need to pay for all these). That the internet
brings people with different cultures and views together (actually, social networking are divided into isolated communities of like-minded persons). That the world has become the global village (very few people have been interested in and follow the global affairs). By the way, what is “the voice of the global village”?
Has it been the voice of few media giants, dominating the cyber-space?
And the solution is to live as the Amish, purposefully isolating, remaining ignorant, and living peacefully within the walls of protection built by the corrupted. So many ironies. — Hanover
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”
It's impressive and retarded at the same time. — BrianW
They are just facts of life, and railing against them is as sensible as railing against the weather. — SophistiCat
Of course there are the negative aspects mentioned in the OP. Heck, every time I am writing here and discussing philosophical issues with people I have typically no idea who they are, I'm not playing with my children or doing something else. But have we become worse people? I'm not so sure about that. — ssu
No doubt. But (a) the internet (as many, far more expert in its ways than I, have noted) is far more than a mere technical invention (great as some of those were); it represents a whole new and uncharted way of thinking and living; an entirely novel form of global, collective, organic consciousness that clever folk are exploiting for profit, influence, etc. (but I don't care much), and that is intrinsically exacerbating the very ailments we thought it would fix; and (b) the explosive rise of sophisticated technocracy since the mid-20th c has also offered us a host of other staggering leaps in technical capability, which we have, as a species, sensed that we are incapable--morally incapable--of embracing with anything like the necessary assurance of their beneficence--mostly notably stem cell research, and now the rise of AI (which I personally think likely to make even the most sweeping of these discussions quaintly irrelevant within this century). We slow down, consider, perhaps shape, regulate, whatever. We don't just look up at the sky and shrug our shoulders that it's raining.I am sure that people have said this about television, radio, moving pictures, newsprint, printed books, hand-written books, letters, even writing itself. (Indeed, Socrates allegedly bemoaned writing's detrimental effects on memory.) — sophisticat
See, my problem is I feel I'd need to be a god to say that even half so easily.The internet is just fine. — brianw
This again seems to fail to recognize that the net is so different in degree as to be fundamentally different in kind. It's not just a means of communication, another tool like print or even the phone. It's a new, emergent global form of consciousness (and memory and communication, and thus society, and thus morality, etc.). And it's emerging as a form of what anthropologists call radical mutation, a quantum, disjunctive leap from one state of existence to another (in this case in the compass of a single generation), but--and here's the kicker--on a scale far beyond the grasp of traditional categories of human thought and life.It's just that we've never had such a perspective before. There has never been another time in human history (from the records we have) when people from all over the world have been as accessible as they are at present.
It's a new phenomenon and it will take some time for us to refine our interactions. Please bear with it a while longer. — brianw
Beautiful.I don't agree with your concerns re morality. But I'm kind of a freewheeling libertine who isn't very fond of religion, traditional mores, etc — terrapin
You'll want to pass that on to the International Commission on Stratigraphy as soon as you can. They're clearly making a terrible mistake.It's certainly not a 'global village' and the cliches are mostly naiive overstatement but that shouldn't overshadow the positive trend. — aporiap
The Amish are such a tough target for mockery. Full marks to the Simpsons for teasing out the absurdity of their existence!"We solemnly believe that although humans have been around for a million years, you feel strongly that they had just the right amount of technology between 1835 and 1850. Not too little, not too much." — hanover/marchesk
The 'long distance feeling' was invented when I was about 15. Obviously a degenerate (as Nietzsche would be kind to say).2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. — marchesk
Wow. Another (to me) godlike capability. I'm feeling like a worm in the dust here.If anyone finds the internet tedious, all they have to do is leave it alone. — bcrank
So you reject Musk's 'already cyborgs' claim? (I don't.) How about the poor merchants who refused cell-phone suppositories back in the 80's? First you can't make a living without the implant. And then the pleasure begins, conscience-free. (Unless you're Terrapin, whose conscience appears to be permanently liberated.)So far, anyway. We don't yet have FaceFuck implants yet, or YouTube hard wired into our eyeballs. — bcrank
Put far too simply (that's my problem here, as I said), the internet does all the right things in all the wrong ways. I would suggest, in response to your very sane observation, that what we cannot speak of together, as real (non-virtual) human beings, existing in the real world, in a single time and place, we should not speak of at all. (For awhile at least; say 1,000 years or so.) It's too much, too soon.No other possible media would have brought total strangers to talk about these issues with the ease it has now.[...] Of course there are the negative aspects mentioned in the OP. Heck, every time I am writing here and discussing philosophical issues with people I have typically no idea who they are, I'm not playing with my children or doing something else. But have we become worse people? I'm not so sure about that. — ssu
Your post, Jake, deserves far more, and more detailed attention than mine, I think. And I hope you're finding what your looking for.Well, for one thing, the design of the Internet needs to be reconsidered. — jake
"We solemnly believe that although humans have been around for a million years, you feel strongly that they had just the right amount of technology between 1835 and 1850. Not too little, not too much." — Marchesk
he got on his phone probably 15-20 times when we were supposed to be sharing vis a vis society yesterday (my society wasn't entertaining or stimulating enough it would appear) — Anthony
I didn't mean that we shouldn't talk if our togethereness is only virtual. It was much more of a remark on the value choices that we make how we spend our time, especially when you have close people to you who are only for a brief time dependent of you and for whom you are so important, until they grow up and start living their own independent lives.I would suggest, in response to your very sane observation, that what we cannot speak of together, as real (non-virtual) human beings, existing in the real world, in a single time and place, we should not speak of at all. (For awhile at least; say 1,000 years or so.) It's too much, too soon. — Brian Jones
Haven't the human race been in that centrifuge for quite a while now? From the personal car to the telephone to mass media to cheap contraception, we have dramatically changed the way we live through the technological inventions we have made. The easy life perhaps makes us more lazy and short sighted, yet it's a very old way of thinking that we have lost something on the way and become decadent.The internet is like a great cultural centrifuge, and we're hurtling outward with it. — Brian Jones
As was pointed out in many responses of this thread, we cannot change the course of the internet development since it has reached the point of no return. And, as numerous previous revolutionary inventions, it brings us both advantages and disadvantages. In addition to already mentioned points, the radical novelty of the internet has also been based on the construction of the interaction interface that modeling, enforcing, sustaining, and modulating the whole complexes of human behavior. Using many sites or programs, one must ultimately follow the previously designed patterns and algorithms, interacting with and programming one’s cognitive, perceptual, and volitional reactions. Probably, these tendencies will be further augmented by the intensive AI development. Of course, we benefit from and enjoy the continually growing effectiveness, convenience, and productivity. Yet, aren’t we able to find behind the conventional interface the cybernetic and informational machines’ networks, interacting not with a particular internet user, but with a set of non-individuated intelligence, affects, sensations, cognition, and memory?We get the answers we seek instantly, we keep up with friends without speaking to them, we get the news as it happens, we watch loops of videos an algorithm chose for us, we click once and get any product in the world delivered to our doorsteps in less than two days.
Less friction means more time spent, more ads seen, more sales made. Tech companies lose customers during login screens and security verification, and as a result of slow load times. The country’s top computer science talent is paid billions of dollars to further reduce the milliseconds of delay separating our desires and their fulfillment. — Brian Jones
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