Well, parroting what I just wrote in another thread. "Best arguments against my identifying as a man born in a woman's body?" I don't know, buddy. That's the sort of thing you can discuss, but I think you're bound to go awry if you think logic, reason, deliberation or dialectic will provide anything beyond clarification of what are essentially non-logical, non-rational global questions of how you cope with the world and your place in it. — John Doe
I know you're interested in Wittgenstein. I think there are some Wittgensteinian points to make here. If I wish to persuade you that your suicidal thoughts are a sort of error - to show the fly out of the bottle - it will depend greatly upon my becoming acquainted with you as a person and the sorts of reasons and motivations in virtue of which you're entertaining these thoughts. Philosophy as therapy. For a certain sort of person you might say: Go read Dostoevsky. For another: Get your doctor to prescribe lithium then see if you still want to debate the topic. — John Doe
I think, as a Wittgensteinian, the problems of people are mainly psychological or what we tell ourselves. — Wallows
It's a matter of identifying with a new voice in your head and listening to it instead of the incessant critic or what others would call a demon. Socrates talked about listening to his daemon. — Wallows
The opposite, though these words are used in such myriad ways that it might not be worth it to go to the bother of attempting to use the terms.So, you don't think we can empathize with someone seriously and quaintly considering suicide? Only sympathize? — Wallows
I definitely agree, so long as we understand psychology in the deep sense of the term - the sense of the term that led Witty to love Schopenhauer and Dostoyevsky, engage seriously with Freud, etc. - as opposed to being a mere set of subjective preferences, tastes, and inclinations. — John Doe
Well, I suppose this is the "two-in-one" of thinking, the fact that I can carry on a dialogue in thought rather than a monologue. — John Doe
I think you're right about finding an expression of one's self through one's capacity to think. I'm not sure what I think of this - would love to see you expand on the thought. — John Doe
My own feeling is that suicidal thoughts tend to be a much larger expression of how one lives a life - the way one copes within the local world one occupies - than a view one comes to through thought and internal dialogue. — John Doe
The opposite, though these words are used in such myriad ways that it might not be worth it to go to the bother of attempting to use the terms. — John Doe
2. Failed suicide attempts can be extremely painful physically and psychologically. They could also lead to permanent disability. If the point of suicide is to reduce suffering, then this could make the problem worse. — TheHedoMinimalist
Killing yourself on the The Philosophy Forum, the leading forum of professional kibitzers this side of the Milky Way, would set a bad example. And it would be in bad taste. `Etiquette is so important. Blowing yourself up is just rude.
You are too important to the health of our kibitzeria to depart now. We expect you to be here for the next 10 years, minimum. We need you. We want you. — Bitter Crank
You dont think that someone can arrive at the decision to kill themsevles rationally and/or logically? (In situations where they arent terminal or suffering horribly etc, What I mean is opting out of life not necessarily a “mercy” suicide if that makes sense.) — DingoJones
Ok so the former. So what are you basing that on? Obviously niether of us is aware of all the cases but it seems to me that a person could justify suicide by reasoning that lifes ups and downs arent enough to make it worthwhile, for example.
Doesnt seem like you have enough data to take the position that you are. — DingoJones
It also takes some guts and balls to commit suicide. — Wallows
No. It takes a surfeit of despair and hopelessness, and a deficiency of gut and balls. — Bitter Crank
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