If preparing for a no deal Brexit isn’t organization, I don’t know what is. But sure, if you wish to call that unorganized, I won’t hold it against you. — NOS4A2

The withdrawal is unorganized in case of a no deal Brexit, that's doesn't mean people cannot plan to mitigate the consequences of that fall out. Your mistake is to think the latter makes the former organised. It doesn't but this point seems rather obvious.

That’s fair. But I don’t get the unmitigated fears. Article 50 seems pretty straight forward. The only thing that happens is the treaty no longer applies to you. Work out all the kinks after.

I'm from Ireland. The kink here is a potential return to violence. If the UK crashes out with no-deal, there'll have to be a hard border on the island, and that means the Good Friday agreement is down the tubes. That's a deadly serious issue.

. The Troubles are fake news clearly.

I never realized that. Why would the Good Friday agreement go down the tubes?

The Guardian is the para-military wing of the Labour Party.

Uh, what? Where did that come from?

Well, according to Stanley Johnson, Boris's dad, it doesn't matter because, and I quote, “if the Irish people want to shoot each other, they will shoot each other”.



The British and Irish governments agreed there would be no hard border on the island of Ireland. Free movement north and south. That was part of the compromise that ended the war up there. Dumping that commitment in pursuit of a hard Brexit is as unpincipled as China reneging on its agreements with Britain over Hong Kong.

(You might begin to understand now why the EU and Ireland will never submit to Boris's tough guy act and why his "negotiations" are all just a vain show. It's not intransigence on their part, it's bringing Britain to heel on its irresponsible demands. And that will not change.

So, British leavers can huff and puff about a hard Brexit all they want, but they won't get a deal that drags Northern Ireland away from its integrated relationship with the South; and with no-deal off the table, their only other option will be to draw up a customs border between themselves and Northern Ireland. In other words, initiate a de facto break-up of the UK—which would just be the beginning as Scotland would almost certainly desert next with Northern Ireland very possibly then going the whole hog and joining the South).

I don’t see how a deal is the only way to go, especially if that deal is no good. May’s deal, for instance, was deemed a bad deal. Rather, It would be shooting oneself in the foot to accept a bad deal. The no-deal needs to remain on the table as another option. — NOS4A2

Ha! "No deal's better than a bad deal"? But realistically no deal is always going to be worse than a deal. A deal worse than no deal is merely hypothetical!

Yes, the same Lib Dems who opposed Labour's war in Iraq. — Michael

New Labour's, and our current leader opposed it.

Did you know that the current leader of the Lib Dems almost always voted for the bedroom tax, consistently voted against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices, generally voted against a banker’s bonus tax, almost always voted for reducing the rate of corporation tax, infamously u-turned by having consistently voted for university tuition fees and by voting for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year, consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education, consistently voted for selling England’s state owned forests, generally voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods, generally voted against greater regulation of hydraulic fracturing (fracking) to extract shale gas, consistently voted against slowing the rise in rail fares, generally voted against greater regulation of gambling, consistently voted for capping civil service redundancy payments, almost always voted against Labour's anti-terrorism laws, generally voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail, generally voted for restricting the scope of legal aid, and generally voted for the policies included in the 2010 Conservative - Liberal Democrat Coalition Agreement?

So, she can't be trusted to support the least financially well off in society, can't be trusted to tackle ruthless capitalism, can't be trusted on national security, can't be trusted on education, and can't be trusted on the environment.

Mic drop.

The only way I can see the government getting a deal is if the backstop applies only to Northern Ireland with a border down the Irish Sea. But even this is not going to be possible now for the government, as it requires throwing the DUP under the bus.

The only sensible way forward, if we are determined to leave, that I can see is if article 50 is revoked for the purposes of holding a border poll in Northern Ireland and returning to Brexit when that has been sorted out. I know how difficult and divisive this could be, but the cold hard facts are coming to the surface now and the leavers will have to face them.

Well there is another solution, which many in the Labour Party would support is remaining in the single market, so there would be no need for a backstop. But if that is the case surely it is better to remain in the EU, so as to remain a party to the legislature of the EU, rather than in a limbo where we don't have a voice in the EU.

Which everway you turn there are intractable problems like this. More cold hard facts for the leavers to chew on.

Which everway you turn there are intractable problems like this. More cold hard facts for the leavers to chew on. — Punshhh

Not just the leavers. The undecided. And remainers who might be thinking 'Enough already' - a soft Brexit is better than a hard one. Some compromise to reach a majority is required. Otherwise this will be never-ending. I am not convinced that another referendum or general election will accomplish this.

People and politicians are tired of it all. This is when mistakes happen.
Johnson and co are making this more difficult. However, people are easily hoodwinked by the lies.
They are persuaded by easy rhetoric and believe media messages even as they disbelieve.

I am getting pretty tired of the generalisations and accusations flying around. We need concise facts in easy to understand format before rational decision making. Trouble is that it is more about stirring up emotions. Politicians behaving badly might inspire some to extreme anger and violence. It is grossly irresponsible that Johnson is talking about not following the law.

The cold, hard facts have been around for some time in various reports, some of which are still kept hidden. For the general public, leavers, remainders and the undecided - it is essential that before they vote that the consequences are made absolutely clear. I know some who didn't vote last time because they they didn't know. It is only when it hits home personally in travel, business, jobs or family that it becomes real.

So, who gains from Brexit and how? Rees-Mogg 'the Lying Tory' Brexit Billionaire.
Many people decided based on emotion and basic bus promises.
Immigration and the NHS - two main issues. Do we need to leave the EU to solve the problems ?
No.

How is Royal Assent obtained in the UK?
Hint: Is it Parliament, or the Queen's Government, which makes laws?

How is Royal Assent obtained in the UK? — Galuchat

Easy enough to google

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/lords/lrds-royal-assent/

Hint: Is it Parliament, or the Queen's Government which makes laws? — Galuchat

How laws are made:
https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/
The role of the Queen:
https://www.bmsf.org.uk/about-the-monarchy/the-queen/the-queen-in-the-government/

The whole process is archaic.

The difference between parliament and government:

https://www.parliament.uk/education/about-your-parliament/parliament-and-government/

What's your point concerning Brexit ?

The answer to my question is found in your third link.

What's your point concerning Brexit ? — Amity

What is Jeremy Corbyn's current condition for agreeing a general election?

What's your point concerning Brexit ?
— Amity

What is Jeremy Corbyn's current condition for agreeing a general election? — Galuchat

Come on.
Spit it out. What is your point ?

It is grossly irresponsible that Johnson is talking about not following the law. — Amity

Which law?

Which law? — Galuchat

European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 6) Bill (HL Bill 202)

That would be a bill, not a law.

It's expected to be law on Monday. It's passed the Houses and is awaiting Royal Assent.

And how is Royal Assent obtained in the UK?

And how is Royal Assent obtained in the UK? — Galuchat

The Clerk of the Crown prepares letters patent listing all bills passed by Parliament which are then signed by the Royal Commission.

Stay tuned.

I'm from Ireland. The kink here is a potential return to violence. If the UK crashes out with no-deal, there'll have to be a hard border on the island, and that means the Good Friday agreement is down the tubes. That's a deadly serious issue. — Baden

Yes.
It is serious and fraught with dangers.
With no clear answers and no trust in Johnson, how will it be solved ? The latest:

European officials have accused Boris Johnson of “reneging” on pledges to uphold the Good Friday agreement, ahead of the prime minister’s first meeting with his Irish counterpart.

Johnson will meet the Irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, in Dublin on Monday at a tumultuous moment in the Brexit process, with only 52 days until the UK’s departure. Talks are set to be tense as fears grow in Dublin and Brussels that the British prime minister is backsliding on promises to protect the tightly knit economic and social links on the island of Ireland.

“The commitment to all aspects and all the provisions of the letter and spirit of the Good Friday agreement recently seems to be taken more lightly than before,” a senior diplomat from a continental member state told the Guardian. “This avoidance of the hard border, it is not just a desire, it is not just about preferences, it is legal obligation.”...

...A UK government spokesperson firmly rejected suggestions the government was not committed to the Good Friday agreement. “We are committed to the common travel area, to upholding the rights of citizens of Northern Ireland, to ongoing north-south cooperation, to retaining the benefits of the single electricity market. We remain firmly committed to peace in Northern Ireland and the Belfast agreement.

“The Belfast/Good Friday agreement neither depends upon, nor requires a particular customs or regulatory regime. The broader commitments in the Belfast/ Good Friday agreement include parity of esteem, partnership, democracy and a peaceful means of resolving differences. This would be best met if we could explore solutions other than the backstop.”

“We have been clear that we are happy to accept a legally binding commitment not to put infrastructure, controls or checks at the border. We hope the EU do likewise.”
— Jennifer Rankin

"To achieve no-deal Brexit, Boris Johnson has exploited the weakness of our democracy."

It’s been obvious for decades that the eight-word British constitution established in 1689 – what the crown assents in parliament is law – is a decaying, time-worn construct on which to protect and advance today’s democracy...

...Those countries that use referendums a lot, Switzerland and Ireland, for example, have elaborate rules for how they are conducted. In Britain, typically, there are no pre-agreed rules, just ad-hoc legislation arising from the particular power conjuncture of the day: the Cameron government on the run before its rightwing Eurosceptic zealots...

...To win then and now, those in favour of EU membership needed to recognise they had to trump the narrative of an undemocratic Europe by recognising more profound democratic failings at home. Balking at such radicalism, Remain instead found itself the advocate of a hard-to-justify status quo; an archaic state, a decaying democracy and rampant social inequality inflamed by fears of immigration. Leave was allowed to blame it all on the EU – cover for their ultra-rightwing ambitions.

A wholesale change of mindset was needed. Remain should have stood for a re-democratised Britain that put power in the hands of the people and for transformative economic and social change that would make Britain better, not worse. To leave the EU, it should have said, would be to abandon that prospect. — Will Hutton

[ my bolds]
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/01/sheer-scale-of-crisis-facing-britains-constitution-has-been-laid-bare

From 'Letters' in the Guardian.

...It has been clear from the outset that the people behind Brexit have very clear intentions.

The EU is a capitalist entity that not only rejects the worst aspects of the US system but has the clout to resist its encroachments.

The disaster capitalists who want to discard laws designed to limit the ill effects of capitalism on employment, the environment, the climate, food, health etc and unleash an unrestricted race to the bottom will get even richer if Brexit goes through.

This was always the purpose behind Brexit, whatever lies have been put up to hide it. These are not people who will be harmed by a no-deal Brexit; on the contrary, the potential to take advantage of it is almost unlimited.
— Jeremy Cushing

[my bolds]

So, this seems straightforward.The EU v the USA ?
Progress and protect with the more enlightened v Regress with the Hard-Right removing rights.
The rhetoric of 'you are either with us, or against us'.

Is it as simple as that ? We will never walk alone but which path will we follow...

The British and Irish governments agreed there would be no hard border on the island of Ireland. Free movement north and south. That was part of the compromise that ended the war up there. Dumping that commitment in pursuit of a hard Brexit is as unpincipled as China reneging on its agreements with Britain over Hong Kong.

Was there violence when Ireland initially rejected the treaty of Lisbon? What occurred at the border then?

What is Jeremy Corbyn's current condition for agreeing a general election? — Galuchat

“The bill that is going to parliament today needs to pass. It needs to pass all its stages. It needs to go through and have royal assent – and once we’re confident they can’t crash out and no deal is taken off the table for 31 October, we will support a general election,” he said. — Corbyn's spokesperson

Whether or not Ireland accepted the treaty of Lisbon had no implications whatsoever for the border. We were still all in the EU one way or the other.