If there was a “maybe” answer I reckon everyone would go for that, think a bit harder, then change their mind’s and click YES.

in terms of living the life I would have wanted, and in that context being the person I had wanted to be, then that ship sailed over a quarter of a century ago for me... :D

But I would say that maybe what I wanted to be wasn't what I would have wanted to be these days....it might have been more fun, but these days I think maybe I'd have set different goals, if I could go back...

Maybe you can become something better than what you wanted/want to be....maybe what you wanted to be was based upon some naive thinking, or unrealistic, or less mature than what you might have wanted to be, say in ten years..

You have the right to change your mind about who you want to be. If not being that person depresses you to the point of suicide, I suggest invoking that right to change your goal.

On the other hand, many people enjoy having a difficult goal they know they'll probably never achieve, because it serves as a motivator and guide for their life. Their goal is for the purpose of enjoying the process, and if they actually achieved it they'd probably be very sad about having nothing more to do with life. And frankly, that does seem a lot sadder -- once you've become who you want to be in life, what more purpose is there for hanging around?

Obviously when you’ve planned your life around one singular purpose and had that purpose torn away from you let’s not pretend this is an easy thing to imagine let alone to cope with.

The musician who goes deaf, the painter who becomes blind, the paralysised rising sports star ... other less “physical” hindrances are equivalent to having a limb or sense removed. To reoriente your life after pouring all your effort into one area is going to be a hard task. I guess whoever you are you simply have to take on this seemingly impossible task and make it our prime directive. Explore and find a new purpose, the search for purpose may simply be the purpose that was missing - you’ll find that people who do become the person they wanted to be NEVER find satisfaction. Meaning they then have to deal with the very same sitiation and reorientate their lives around another task.

Is this life still worth living if you know you will not become the person you want to be? — Broyphus

How do you know this?

The wanting to-be a certain person is itself is a becoming. You do not even know what kind of person you will want to be in the future. So my answer would be yes.

Most of us have a sacred sense of life, where we conclude that almost any condition of life is worth living. Look at the highly disabled, immobilized by disability, we keep alive, because why? we think they have some worth to us. Your life isn't probably that morose compared to the life of others, who in theory may conclude that their lives are worth living.

Just because you can't see yourself doing something you set out to, doesn't make life any less worth-while. There are plenty of things you can do in life to feel worthy, from small things to bigger things. I wouldn't be able to judge your life worth just on what you have stated here, so I didn't vote.

My own answer would be yes, but then I must admit that I struggle to imagine being so fixed on wanting to be such a narrowly definitive person that: a) I would know if it would ever be possible for me to become that person and b) such certain ‘knowledge’ would cause me to view living a life not becoming that person as without worth.

Whatever way you answer the question (if at all), you continue living. It's the default state. You have needs for oxygen, shelter, water, food, etc, whose lack will motivate you through suffering to breathe, house yourself, drink, eat, etc. And by consequence of alleviating these discomforts and sufferings, your biological existence will continue. The question is irrelevant in a sense. Is life worth living? You can mull it over endlessly but the answer you come up with doesn't matter, as you'll continue to suffer, seek it's alleviation and by consequence exist regardless. "My life is not worth living", he says, preparing a meal because he's hungry (so he can conclude the very same thing tomorrow?). Is, "is my life worth living" a question worth asking?

Perhaps a better question is that of suicide. Is your life worth ending? But worth it to whom? You destroy what could benefit by the act, and almost certainly it wont be worth it for the others that know you.

Was your life worth starting? Again, for whom? Perhaps it was worth it for your mother and family, to start your life. But for yourself? You didn't preexist your own birth, so it's nonsensical to say you are worse or better off by your life starting.

I think in this existence we have found ourselves in an intractable predicament. We find ourselves embodied as this animal with perpetual biological, social, esteem, and existential needs. These needs present as pains, discomforts, restlessness, or in some sense the sensation of 'I am not satisfied/content'. The discomfort and dissatisfaction we feel motivates us to meet these needs. While meeting these needs we experience various flow states, 'losing ourselves' in our sensations (eg, hunger hurts so we eat, and then 'lose ourselves' within the meal). We call this pleasure, and conclude life is good. We 'gift' this life to the non-existent (nonsensically), choosing to create children. Or just mindlessly lose ourselves within the pleasure of sex, and by consequence human existence proliferates.

Even these questions and thoughts arise out of that same sense of "I am not satisfied/content", but rather than relating to some bodily pain or discomfort, it is in overall relation to the existence/existential situation we find ourselves in. I feel uneasy, not content nor satisfied with this life and it's structure. The issue is that when we feel the discomfort of hunger, we seek food. But when we are not satisfied with the structure of life itself (part of which includes the presence of hunger), what do we seek? And even if we do find something that alleviates our discomfort (eg, relationships, community, religion, lofty goals), it's not as if we are escaping the same feel discomfort -> seek its alleviation -> loss of self within alleviation of discomfort -> wears off ->back to discomfort cycle. It's a predicament.

One might do one's best, but what would it mean to "want" to be someone else other than who one is?

This life started, period. Speculate about how or why if you like. I like those questions too. I suggest that there's no reason or purpose to life, and that it was inevitable. ...making it pointless and even meaningless to second-guess or evaluate it.

You eventually won't have any surviving descendants if there occurs the universe's (at least "local") heat-death, or a big-crunch. ...and of course the much sooner predicted nova will be a closer survival-problem, unless some of your descendants get in a space-ark..

Anyway, this notion of wanting doesn't make a lot of sense. Trying, liking, but not wanting.

Michael Ossipoff

13 Tu
2247 UTC

Most of us have a sacred sense of life, where we conclude that almost any condition of life is worth living. — Josh Alfred

But is that because we have a biological imperative to survive? We can also say humans have a sacred duty to procreate and propagate the species. But again, is that just a biological imperative that we've turned into a sacred sense?

If you asked me would I rather be born into slavery my entire life or not exist, I would choose to not exist. And yet people were born and lived in slavery, and had children. And that's because the will to survive is very strong. And yes, we can say their lives had value, but it's not the sort of life we wish on anyone.

Perhaps a better question is that of suicide. Is your life worth ending? But worth it to whom? You destroy what could benefit by the act, and almost certainly it wont be worth it for the others that know you. — Inyenzi

Yes, a suffering conundrum in itself. The very thing that is going to give "relief" (death), also deprives you of the experience of the "relief" itself that is trying to be obtained. As E.M. Cioran put it: It is not worth the bother of killing yourself, since you always kill yourself too late.

Also, much of suicide is about the suicide ideation- the projection of the suicide, and the meaning of it for the person. It is a cathartic act for many. A long while back, I posted a little thought experiment:

What if a person was just fed up with life, and ready to jump in front of a train as a way to kill himself. Everything up to that moment was about how much life sucked, and how much he was going to rebel against the very thing was causing him this pain (life) by killing himself. He stands on the tracks, but right before the train hits him, someone shoots him dead instead. The same result of death occurred, but there is something different about it. In a way, the suicidal person was robbed of the act itself, which was symbolic. It was a cathartic act of rebellion. It was what it symbolized. It was that the person was taking the situation in his own hands, and giving the finger to life. It wasn't just that he was going to live no more, and have no more conscious experience. Rather, it was about him taking his life in his hands, rebellion, catharsis, and the meaning and context of his suicide as a final act to himself. So suicide is more catharsis for most. Unless precipitated by extreme torture, cultural practices (e.g. samurai), or terminal illness, most suicides due to depression/melancholy/life events not going right, etc. are about catharsis and the symbolic act itself. However, the outcome takes away the pleasure of the catharsis. So, most suicidal people are stuck in a loop of ideation rather than really committing to it, though that does happen from time-to-time as well.

I think in this existence we have found ourselves in an intractable predicament. We find ourselves embodied as this animal with perpetual biological, social, esteem, and existential needs. These needs present as pains, discomforts, restlessness, or in some sense the sensation of 'I am not satisfied/content'. The discomfort and dissatisfaction we feel motivates us to meet these needs. While meeting these needs we experience various flow states, 'losing ourselves' in our sensations (eg, hunger hurts so we eat, and then 'lose ourselves' within the meal). We call this pleasure, and conclude life is good. We 'gift' this life to the non-existent (nonsensically), choosing to create children. Or just mindlessly lose ourselves within the pleasure of sex, and by consequence human existence proliferates. — Inyenzi

Yes, good description of the phenomenology of the human predicament.

Even these questions and thoughts arise out of that same sense of "I am not satisfied/content", but rather than relating to some bodily pain or discomfort, it is in overall relation to the existence/existential situation we find ourselves in. I feel uneasy, not content nor satisfied with this life and it's structure. The issue is that when we feel the discomfort of hunger, we seek food. But when we are not satisfied with the structure of life itself (part of which includes the presence of hunger), what do we seek? And even if we do find something that alleviates our discomfort (eg, relationships, community, religion, lofty goals), it's not as if we are escaping the same feel discomfort -> seek its alleviation -> loss of self within alleviation of discomfort -> wears off ->back to discomfort cycle. It's a predicament. — Inyenzi

Indeed, this is the pendulum swing that Schopenhauer characterized as Will, but can simply be called the human predicament. That is why I think antinatalism is not important for its outcome necessarily, but also for its therapeutic value. It is rebellion against this predicament. It is first recognizing it for what it is, which you characterized quite nicely, and then taking a rebel stance against it. If humans recognized this communally, I think there is some therapeutic value in this. Antinatalism/pessimism as therapy- not simply misanthropic discontent. That is missing the mark of its view and stance that is taken from this view.

@Broyphus

Well I think Broyphus is my favorite philosophy name to date (is that the Greekified version of "Bro"? hahaha), so that suggests you have plenty to live for.

Rid yourself of your "need to become" and life is roses (I am not buddhist, but they got that one right).

This was easy for me because I tend to set the bar too high. At some point I accepted that I would not become the one to save all of humanity from itself. It didn't sting much.

Even if it's not worth living everyone going to die soon enough anyway. Might as well get what you can out of life while you still have it.