“Belonging” and “Ownership”

I like sushi

NOTE: This was originally going to be a post in thread “What does it mean to be part of a country?” but as I wrote it appears my hand got the better of me and this is what came out (thought it would be useful to the reader to understand part of the context I write this in)

Also, before reading please be mindful of the manner in which I use the terms “belonging” and “ownership”. I was trying to write in as genuine a manner as possible and didn’t want to hinder the process by getting into intricate definitions (just apply a little charity where parenthesis are used).

“BELONGING” & “OWNERSHIP”

One thing I’ve repeatedly said, and that many have refuted, is my comparison of “patriotism” with “religion”. I don’t honestly see a huge difference between them.

I can, hand on heart, say that there has only ever been one place on Earth where I felt a deep and primal sense of “HOME” ... it was in Amazon standing on a large hill looking across an unbroken panorama of green canopies.

When it comes to a sense of belonging I think this is tied VERY closely to the idea of ownership. In the jungle it is ridiculous to look at things as being “owned” and more about being a part of something. When it comes to “religion” and “nationhood” I think we feel this tension between ownership and belonging yet struggle to articulate or reconcile them.

Going a step further into the thoughts I have about this it seems to me that when alone I don’t care about “ownership” at all, yet some people do obsess over such things when they’re alone. When in a group I do care about “ownership” (be this merely an abstract idea guarded through intellectual discussion not necessarily about material possessions), yet some only care about “belonging” when they’re around others. Of course I am framing this as if I am 100% focused on “belonging” (being a part of something) when alone and never concerned with “ownership” - I’m not trying to paint a black and white picture, an all or none position.

What puzzles me personally is what to do with the thoughts I have!? In the sense above do I “belong” to my thoughts or do they “belong” to me? Essentially when framed like this there doesn’t appear to be any meaningful difference, yet they do at least create a facade of being “different”. I am human and I am from Earth. Where I was born and my personal history matters only within a certain perspective regarding my existence, but it is neither the whole nor the most important aspect of what “belonging” or “ownership” means.

It seems to me that to treat yourself as a mysterious stranger is perhaps the best way to approach life. This curious and strangely contrary being I appear to be is not especially different from anyone else, this being belongs to others, yet this being is also special in its minute differences and it is there its sense of “ownership” of self alongside its inevitable sense of “belonging”.

I guess everyone has contemplated the age old view of “self” and who we are? Is the “true” you how you see yourself or how others see you? It is clear enough that we can be under false assumptions about who and what we are and it sometimes takes the full weight of public opinion to wake us up to how THEY see you. If everyone sees you as X and you see yourself as Y then what is the so called “genuine” you? I think this is a nonsense; a confliction of grammar and poor semantic values.

What I am is what I most want to become, not my, or anyone’s, perception of what I’ve done and where I am now. Then we find the question of whether or not we know what we wish to become and if we do how much this can change?

I belong to the future and I own my past in the nascent “now”. If I have goals I can reach with ease I will reach them and not suffer, and if I have goals I don’t care about I will suffer nothing. Most people I know see me as “strange” and “different” yet the irony is I see them as being almost identical to me. If honest I’ve spent just as much time scared of my differences as I have been covetous of them. And I mean “covetous” because I’m not what I am now and I never will be! This is the possession I belong to in the future not the ownership of the past.

Brett

What I am is what I most want to become, not my or anyone’s perception of what I’ve done and where I am now. — I like sushi

This idea of wishing to become, do you mean to become something specific, or do you mean free of the expectations around you?

Brett

This curious and strangely contrary being I appear to be is not especially different from anyone else, this being belongs to others, y — I like sushi

Just to clarify; this is the belonging?

this being is also special in its minute differences and it is there its sense of “ownership” — I like sushi

And this is the ownership?

I like sushi

↪Brett

I cannot answer your questions directly I’m afraid. Not because I don’t WISH to, but because if I was to attempt to I’d make a mess of it.

As a very vague and fuzzy attempt to address PART (and only part) of what I wrote I’d say “belonging” is what I am and “ownership” is a repercussion of dealing with “belonging”. To “belong” is to deal with suffering and to “own” is to suffer the loss, in part, of “belonging” - they are relational antonyms.

I’ll try and say more when I think of a better way to say it that is LESS ambiguous (hopefully!)

Brett

↪I like sushi

That’s okay. I find your posts interesting and very ambiguous but worth unpacking.

unenlightened

My daughter is in Australia. Her father is in Wales. we belong to each other, but neither owns the other.
One might want to analyse relations of owning and belonging in terms of benefit and obligation/responsibility.

Consider a man who is 'self-possessed'. He has a certain demeanour of calmness; his obligations are voluntarily assumed, his responses are considered - he is responsive rather than reactive, he has self-control.

Consider too, the medieval notion of society as the Great man, (the king as head, the people as body).

The great man, the great man
Historians his memory
Artists, his senses, thinkers, his brain
Labourers, his growth, explorers, his limbs
And soldiers his death each second
And mystics his rebirth each second
Businessmen, his nervous system
No-hustle men his stomach
Astrologers, his balance, lovers, his loins
His skin it is all patchy
But soon will reach one glowing hue
God is his soul, infinity, his goal
The mystery, his source
And civilisation, he leaves behind
Opinions are his fingernails.

https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=incredible+string+band+maya+lyrics&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Some ideas that might help with the unpacking - something to cut the string, somewhere to put some of the contents, maybe.

Txastopher

Ownership is a legal concept that relies on the shared idea of property. Belonging is polysemic and therefore not useful in terms of law but still attractive to romantics and others who enjoy pseudo-profundity.

I like sushi

↪Txastopher

Meeow! Haha!

BC

as I wrote it appears my hand got the better of me and this is what came out — I like sushi

There does seem to be a short-cut between our fingers and that part of the non-conscious minds that actually composes our texts. Then there is the auto-correct software feature which seems to be getting more aggressive in its determination to correct what it thinks is the wrong word.

It is not clear to me what you are trying to get at, though I liked the paradox you incorporated into some of your sentences, like ...

What I am is what I most want to become, not my, or anyone’s, perception of what I’ve done and where I am now. — I like sushi

Perhaps you are saying that life seems like a paradox right now? Is that a happy paradox or an unhappy one?

I like sushi

↪Bitter Crank

I guess I was teetering on the Heideggerian take of the “I am,” but I’d certainly not pretend I can go much further - and Heidegger’s fault imo was that he overstepped.

I wrote what I wrote as a contemplation of what it means to be a part of any given society and what an individual can say they are by location and experience. Some are more drawn to what is new and some to what is the same - and we all fluctuate to some degree between trying to consolidate what we “own” and venturing out for a new sense of “belonging”. I wasn’t framing “ownership” as restricted to material wealth; in fact I was thinking more in terms of possession of different perspectives and ideas.

I wouldn’t take what I’ve written above as any kind of statement. Ot was a musing about how we regard ourselves as part of this or that relative to where we’ve been in life and where we wish to go. I am nascent, but don’t much like the idea of navel gazing as the be all and end all of all.

Think about yourself in your life. Most, if not all, people have an underlying sense of “being”/“wishing” themselves to be of greater importance than they currently deem themselves. We may find some degree of satification in life and find somewhere to “settle” yet we’ve always got one eye on the horizon contemplating, if not seeking out, adventure of some form (physical or mental).

I was watching Stewart Lee the other night. He as taking the piss about comments given by people about the death of Bin Laden. One said something along the lines of “seeing how it feels” ... and it is this mismatch I feel we’re trapped by in day-to-day speech, a sense of meaning where there is none, yet by making this mismatch we venture into the unknown and occassionally stumble upon something fruitful. Our mistaken belief that we can “see how something feels” when we can only “feel how it feels” or “see how it looks” - that fact that we can do both of these and that they can appear paraellel is the peculiar impression of “being” we have.

It is a musing and not a lot more than that. Just like I may attempt to describe a song I heard to you I can only use comment reference and some dubious analogies - this is basically everyday speech which we’ve come to wear like a skin rather than a protective/declarative garment.

As a kind of ironic analogy of an analogy it may be considered that this “garment” is fashioned from the material of logic, yet the techniques by which we’ve been able to put this material to use remain intangible.

I wouldn’t take any of this too seriously. Maybe it’s more fitting for the “Lounge” than here :)

“Belonging” and “Ownership”

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