has Cynicism become a philosophy of the mad, ill, and deranged — Wallows

No, because the mad, ill, deranged, or impoverished people living on the streets did not choose to live there. In our world, 'the streets' is the last stop in economic descent, after which there is very little choice about what happens next.

But, as Fromm described in his The Sane Society, it might be the society that is making people mad. — Wallows

Fromm thought that societies might invert the meaning of sane, so that insane societies would make otherwise 'mad men' into model citizens. In some ways the German Nazis accomplished that end. In some ways, some societies (like us, sometimes) invert the meaning of mental health, so that the most neurotically and acquisitively driven people are considered to be the supreme beings, like Bill Gates or Donald Trump.)

Some people, today, like contemplative Christian monastics, withdraw from society and live their materially meagre lives in prayer. Some even beg for their food, like some Buddhist monks in SE Asia. That is the sort of thing a cynic might relate to, I suppose. It doesn't appeal to me.

Wikipedia says, "As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, sex, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free from all possessions."

There is a great deal of merit in that suggestion, especially IF one stops at a point well before the logical extremity. The average temperature in Athens in January is a high of 56 and a low of 44. In Minneapolis the January high is 22 and the low is 6. Living on the streets in a clay pot (like Diogenes did) would be better in Athens than in Minneapolis.

Given the environmental crisis currently unfolding, it would be a good idea to radically rethink and retool what we think is necessary.

No, because the mad, ill, deranged, or impoverished people living on the streets did not choose to live there. In our world, 'the streets' is the last stop in economic descent, after which there is very little choice about what happens next. — Bitter Crank

Well, there can be people who voluntarily choose homelessness. I don't have the stats on hand but you've heard of them too I would assume?

Or we can speak in a hypothetical question manner. Why would anyone be a Cynic and does that entail homelessness?

If you’re talking at the extreme end then Diogenes answers that question well enough. That doesn’t mean that everyone living on the streets is a follower of “Cynic Philosophy” though.

There does, to my mind, seem to be soem crossover between Stoicism and Cynicism. Not sure how or why that is significant but it may be worth exploring?

I have met a few people who prefer to literally live on the streets and beg for money. In this state (frigid winters, hot summers) it is a choice involving rather harsh conditions. They were not your classical cynics. They were people for whom living at close range with other people (especially the sort of people one finds in shelters) was unacceptable / impossible.

I might choose to live on the streets rather than live in some of the shelters that are available. (Most of the homeless do not live in shelters, because there are not enough of them. Homeless, btw, doesn't mean literally "unsheltered", sitting in the cold rain. It means not having a home address. One may be sheltered and homeless.

I bet most cynics, followers of Antisthenes and Diogenes, did not opt to live in the streets of Athens, at least for very long. If they did, there was probably be an urban renewal program launched to get rid of them.

Diogenes, living in his amphora (a very large fired clay storage pot) might have been nuts, it's hard to tell at this distance in time. Presumably he was striving to make a large philosophical point. I've cited her before, I'll cite her again. Dorothy Day was a socialist, journalist, single mother who developed into a being a devout Roman Catholic. She started the Catholic Worker Movement (CWM). In some ways she was a cynic. Her calling, starting in the Depression, was to help the homeless and outcast people in the slums of New York. She didn't live in the streets, but she did live with the poor in the CWM's crowded, dirty shelters. She had virtually nothing.

There are probably similarities between the founder cynics and the CWM: The message wasn't "live in a filthy shelter with filthy people. It's good for you." Rather, their method was application of Jesus' command to care for the least of his children. The Catholic Worker lives in poverty in order to be able to carry out Christ's command.

Similarly, the two Prime Cynics probably taught people and lived their example. Diogenes would crawl out of his pot in the morning, wash up in the public bath (maybe), beg for some felafel and flat bread for breakfast, then head off to agitate the rest of the day, feeding whenever somebody offered him a handful of feta cheese and tabouli. He probably never needed to find a larger jar because of weight gain.

Yes, I've read somewhere that Diogenes would walk with a lantern during the day looking for a real man or sage or someone worthy of praise.

I guess they didn't have mirrors back then or Diogenes refused to look at his reflection.

I guess they didn't have mirrors back then or Diogenes refused to look at his reflection. — Wallows

That didn't stop Narcissus.

Narcissus — Bitter Crank

Oh that poor fellow. It was a profound story when I heard it. I am haunted by it to this day.

Here's an early photo of Diogenes.



The sitting black dog seems to have mange.

Where is it.

:D

Yes, the dogs kept him warm at night.

It's there now. For some reason the URL wouldn't post.

Here's a link to an Article in Philosophy Now about How to Be a Cynic. DIY.

I looked up Cynic Texts in Google and came up with an article on Wikipedia that suggested most of the texts that survived were put together in the first century A.D., and include material from the pre-Socratics like Heraclitus. They were grouped together in the Cynic Epistles.

There are a number of themes in Cynicism – the nomadic way of life, the giving up of worldly possessions, the praise of the poor and disparagement of the rich, the taking no heed for the morrow – that (tone apart) are uncannily congruent with the Christianity of the Gospels. However, the similarities may be more than fortuitous. The world in which Jesus carried out his mission was very much a Hellenised one, and the city of Gadara, famous in the Gospels for the story of the Gadarene swine, was the home city of no less than three prominent Cynics, whose names remain on record. Nevertheless, although the call of Diogenes is as radical as the call of Jesus, it is to a very different end. For Diogenes the only world was this world, the gods were of no account, and the giving up of material goods was not the prelude to an eternal life in heaven but the better to secure happiness on earth. Indeed, it can be said that the main purpose of Cynicism is to lead humanity to a better understanding of what happiness is. Cynics wanted people to live their lives in the light of that understanding – to free themselves from their self-imposed fetters, and to live in a way that in modern terms we would call ‘authentic’.

--- From Philosophy Now

Yes, the dogs kept him warm at night. — Wallows

You've heard of the band, "Three Dog Night"? The name derives from the number of dogs one needs to have on the bed when it is very cold.

Thanks for sharing. Edifying read.

First heard of them.

Ah sweet. You made a thread about me. Perhaps I won't murder you after all.