Yes, as a result of Karl Marx, approximately 120 million innocent people have died, several economies have failed or are failing, several bitter revolutionary uprisings have caused social and political unrest and needless human suffering, that's quite some society shaping. — whollyrolling

Therefore what can be said about philosophy? I think the conclusion is clear, it's a dangerous tool that can be wielded by people who have nefarious goals. Just off the top of my head think about the (perverted) philosophy of Nietzsche and the Nazis?

What was "perverted" about Nietzsche, specifically, and why would you place him in a category with Nazis, who were not philosophers.

No, I don't dare project my sentiment/feelings/emotions/experience onto others. Idiots do that. If you need a word for it, it might be a simple matter of caring for your welfare, which you abhor. But, as you said, I mean well. — Wallows

So then presumably you accept that you not getting any good out of it, and drugs being a dead end for you, is not necessarily true of others, in line with their own sentiments, experience, etc., which is not going to be identical to your sentiments, experience, etc.?

And I do not abhor what you say I do.

What was "perverted" about Nietzsche — whollyrolling

Supposedly his sister put words into his mouth that were not his. Regarding the lower status of Slavs or Jews.

specifically, and why would you place him in a category with Nazis, who were not philosophers. — whollyrolling

Well, they claimed to practice his (perverted) philosophy, did they not?

So then you except that you not getting any good out of it, and drugs being a dead end for you, is not necessarily true of others, in line with their own sentiments, experience, etc., which is not going to be identical to your sentiments, experience, etc.? — S

To each his or her own, I suppose. If drugs really give you a kick, then so be it. Just don't become addicted or develop some dependency on them.

And I do not abhor what you say I do. — S

Then you don't.

Ehh, this is getting tiring. Must be my own hangover from yesterday. Heh.

So, you're telling me at one end that drugs are not bad (just an example); but, a lifestyle choice. On the other end, I'm asking you what utility do drugs have to an individual? — Wallows

I didn't tell you that drugs aren't bad. I've never told you that. I wouldn't say something so simplistic and misleading.

And the potential utility is blindingly obvious, and we've been over this before. They are called recreational drugs for a reason. Their use is recreational. You wouldn't query this of other recreational activities, so you apply a double standard.

And the potential utility is blindingly obvious, and we've been over this before. They are called recreational drugs for a reason. Their use is recreational. — S

So, the value is in their recreational import to people. Okay, somewhat circular; but, have it your way.

So, the value is in their recreational import to people. — Wallows

Yes.

Okay, somewhat circular; but, have it your way. — Wallows

I don't see any supposed circularity.

I don't see any supposed circularity. — S

What I'm trying to imply is why would people need to have recreational experiences if their lives are going great and well. We talked about this in that other thread on illegal drugs.

To each his or her own, I suppose. If drugs really give you a kick, then so be it. Just don't become addicted or develop some dependency on them. — Wallows

Just don't wallow too much or too deeply. Don't wallow in excess. Find your balance. Or, fuck it, do whatever, because fuck it.

The philosophy of fuck it. :grin:

I've read both positive and negative sentiments by Nietzsche concerning Jews, as well as women, musicians, philosophers, Germans, Europeans in general, etc. The worst sentiments he expressed were about other philosophers. He would certainly be considered a racist by today's standards for merely mentioning Jews, or any other category of human beings, in any stereotypical context. As far as I know, Hitler was neither a well-educated nor an accomplished human being before he engaged in political action just prior to his first attempted overthrow of Germany, but I could be mistaken.

Just don't wallow too much or too deeply. Don't wallow excessively. Or, fuck it, do whatever, because fuck it.

The philosophy of fuck it. :grin: — S

Yes, yes. I think the medicine is working now.

I've read both positive and negative sentiments by Nietzsche concerning Jews, as well as women, musicians, philosophers, Germans, Europeans in general, etc. The worst sentiments he expressed were about other philosophers. He would certainly be considered a racist by today's standards for merely mentioning Jews, or any other category of human beings, in any stereotypical context. As far as I know, Hitler was neither a well-educated nor an accomplished human being before he engaged in political action just prior to his first attempted overthrow of Germany, but I could be mistaken. — whollyrolling

I'm no expert on Nietzsche, just read his Thus Spake Zarathustra. But, one thing I do know is that he is a terribly misunderstood philosopher.

Anyway, I hope I built no straw men hereabouts.

What I'm trying to imply is why would people need to have recreational experiences if their lives are going great and well. We talked about this in that other thread on illegal drugs. — Wallows

Haha. Right. Their lives are going so great and well that they have no "need" (it's about desire, not necessity!) for skiing or bowling or going to the movies or to a dance club or to experience a hallucinogenic drug or the euphoria of ecstasy and so on and so forth. That sure sounds real fun.

The unfun life is not worth living. I am not a square.

Haha. Right. Their lives are going so great and well that they have no "need" (it's about desire, not necessity!) for skiing or bowling or going to the movies or to a dance club or to experience a hallucinogenic drug or the euphoria of ecstasy and so on and so forth. That sure sounds real fun.

The unfun life is not worth living. — S

Whoa, I never said anything like that. Do as you wish. Or better move to Holland where you can find pushers on every corner of a red light district. Ok, now I'm exaggerating. I hear Holland is one of the happiest countries on Earth.

I am not a square. — S

I am Sir Wallows.

Whoa, I never said anything like that. — Wallows

Except you did, you just move the goalposts. Everything I listed was an example of a recreational experience. You questioned the "need" for recreational experiences if someone's life is going "great" and "well".

Do as you wish. Or better move to Holland where you can find pushers on every corner of a red light district. Ok, now I'm exaggerating. I hear Holland is one of the happiest countries on Earth. — Wallows

Hahahahahaha. This is brilliant. You'll never guess where I'm going in about two months time. Seriously. The flights and accommodation are booked.

Yes, yes. I think the medicine is working now. — Wallows

Of course it is. I'm the doctor.

I'm the doctor. — S

And, I'm Sir Wallows.

And, I'm Sir Wallows. — Wallows

When were you knighted? I must have missed that. I was probably off my tits on drugs or engaging in mental masturbation.

When were you knighted? I must have missed that. I was probably off my tits on drugs or engaging in mental masturbation. — S

It was spontaneous. Like enlightenment, ya 'know?

It was spontaneous. Like enlightenment, ya 'know? — Wallows

Of course I know. I'm the Buddha.

It’s for no one and no one needs it. Mere “love” of wisdom is akin to porn addiction.

"It’s for no one and no one needs it. Mere “love” of wisdom is akin to porn addiction. "

well lets not go that far. Porn addiction has been shown under extreme circumstances to lead to severe (such as rape) sexual crimes. Please do your own research on this.

“Philosophies” under severe circumstances have led to the death of millions.

do away with the drugs. They're a dead end. — Wallows

The relief of MS-related unpleasantness that I get from cannabis is real and worthwhile. The additional relief I get from gabapentin is also real and worthwhile. Isn't everything we partake of, a 'drug', in some sense? Maybe even water?

straw men — Wallows

To be fair, no.