It's as though the US does not want to extradite Assange. He has very strong human rights grounds now to avoid extradition.

The fact a 102 years old law that has never been employed for this purpose is used and the possibly disproportionate sentencing period might lead to extraneous considerations to refuse extradition. — Benkei

It's interesting that at least two people responded by saying this might make his extradition less likely. There are glass-half-full types around here! Interesting point though. Did the US act too early and thereby make it harder to get their hands on him? We shall see.

The US had to make a decision between throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him so that there's a higher probability something will stick when he's in a US court and a better chance for a successful extradition. They chose the former, which suggests to me the likelihood of conviction on all counts is very low. This was necessary then to request extradition for everything because it is not allowed to request extradition for something and then charge that person for additional crimes once extradited.

The death penalty is a no go in any case but I'm sure they have given assurances they won't pursue it or the extradition request would be stupid. That leaves the sheer amount of years and the extraordinary grounds that might suggest it's politically motivated or disproportionate. Unfortunately, disproportionately is a specific ground for the European Arrest Warrant so you can reason a contrario it doesn't apply to an extradition to the US. So I don't think the chances of UK courts refusing extradition are very high, just that there's a possibility.

The US had to make a decision between throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him so that there's a higher probability something will stick when he's in a US court and a better chance for a successful extradition. They chose the former, which suggests to me the likelihood of conviction on all counts is very low. This was necessary then to request extradition for everything because it is not allowed to request extradition for something and then charge that person for additional crimes once extradited.

The death penalty is a no go in any case but I'm sure they have given assurances they won't pursue it or the extradition request would be stupid. That leaves the sheer amount of years and the extraordinary grounds that might suggest it's politically motivated or disproportionate. Unfortunately, disproportionately is a specific ground for the European Arrest Warrant so you can reason a contrario it doesn't apply to an extradition to the US. So I don't think the chances of UK courts refusing extradition are very high, just that there's a possibility. — Benkei

A very reasoned and reasonable analysis. I can't disagree with anything, nor could I frame a response at that level of stylish erudition.

And yet ...

I'm disappointed others aren't as outraged as I am. I react viscerally to this case and others seem to impute the US government with good intentions and cleverness or strategic thinking. Of rationality, even of human decency.

I don't share anyone's high regard of the US government in this matter. In other posts I've expressed my intense feelings so I'll just state them here without going in to detail. I'm collecting mainstream opinion about this case, The NYT, WSJ, and even Rachel Maddow are expressing their dismay at this criminalization of standard journalistic practice. A common theme is, "Even if you hate Assange you have to be very concerned about these latest charges, which go right at the heart of the First Amendment."

So I'll just say for the record that I'm impressed by the clarity and insight of all the responses so far; but terribly disappointed at the lack of passionate concern for freedom of expression, the rights of journalists (whether you think Assange is one); and frankly, for Julian Assange. He revealed the US doing truly awful, immoral things as we "brought Democracy" to the world. If you're outraged about Assange's alleged "spying" but unaware of the war crimes he revealed, you should educate yourself about the particulars. Your outrage is misplaced.

If I used the phrase "good Nazis" that would be awfully inflammatory. I don't mean to inflame. What's a more measured phrase that would communicate the idea?. People who don't want to rock the boat. A few weeks ago Rachel Maddow was attacking Assange as part of her Russia Russia Russia schtick. Now that Mueller says no collusion and Maddow's ratings have tanked, she recently gave an impassioned defense of Assange and attack on this awful indictment.

In other words ... this latest indictment has snapped a lot of people to their senses. And Rachel Maddow, welcome back to the world of peace and civil liberties. Too many liberals have gone to the other side the last two years.

It's not like this forum is so intellectually dispassionate. Would the people recently telling me that I should be uniquely outraged because "Trump put kids in cages" and "Trump called Mexicans rapists" and "Trump separated families" please join me in a truly outraged chorus of:

Trump is trying to kill Julian Assange and criminalize journalism.

That's an outrage in opposition to which I'll gladly get out my torch and pitchfork.

But no. On the subject of Assange, everyone is suddenly very measured and rational. As if people want to salvage something from their former state of denial about the government's bad intentions and bad faith in this case.

But no. On the subject of Assange, everyone is suddenly very measured and rational. As if people want to salvage something from their former state of denial about the government's bad intentions and bad faith in this case. — fishfry

It seems to me you complain about what people take issue with in the Trump thread and his child separation and the intensity of their disapproval in this thread. Maybe you should start accepting people are different from you, have different views and different values and afford them some measure of respect instead of judging them all the time. It's bloody tiresome.

He revealed the US doing truly awful, immoral things as we "brought Democracy" to the world. If you're outraged about Assange's alleged "spying" but unaware of the war crimes he revealed, you should educate yourself about the particulars. Your outrage is misplaced. — fishfry

There's nothing new here, U.S. government agencies have always been doing truly awful things as they attempt to bring democracy to the world, from the blatantly illegal (Iran-contra for example), to the utterly disgusting (Vietnam for example). The WikiLeaks revelations are status quo. If we're not already outraged at all these terrible things which US government agencies do in the name of bringing democracy to the world, why would you think that we should be outraged at what they want to do to Assange?

Why would you think that we would single out this one instance of U.S. government agencies unfairly treating one individual (Assange), and direct outrage at the government for this act? Do you not recognize that in all the "truly awful, immoral things" which the US does, the American people are implicit? That's the nature of the beast (democracy) the government fulfills the will of the people. If Assange has revealed crimes, they are the crimes of the American people, and criminals get mad at those who turn them in.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jan/04/julian-assange-cannot-be-extradited-to-us-british-judge-rules

Good news! You can report on American war crimes and only have your life 3/4s destroyed by it, so long as you're on the verge of suicide, so as to not be thrown into an inhumane prison system!*

*pending appeal.

Good topic. A zombie of which I approve.

I'm pretty disgusted with the Australian government's role here - or rather lack thereof.

A British court has said that the US prison system is too inhumane to send someone there. Yep.

I seem to recall--actually, I do recall, but only vaguely--a thread in the old forum on whether he should be allowed to travel to Ecuador from the UK back when his stay at its embassy just began. I argued he should have been allowed to do so, but can't remember the details. I'm sure my opinion was well-founded and wise, though.

As for this, based on the new article it's an interesting decision and I wonder what the grounds for an appeal would be. That our prisons are demonstrably wholesome and nobody commits suicide while incarcerated in them might be difficult to establish. So I imagine there will be some kind of burden of proof, or excess of jurisdiction or authority argument. I may have to read the decision and appeal if they're available, when I have the chance.

Posting an invisible video is not particularly helpful.

Is Assange really in jail and solitary confinement because he failed to appear in court in connection with allegations of sexual misconduct that have since been formally dropped due to lack of evidence? This is a stain on the UK justice system.

Posting an invisible video is not particularly helpful. — Banno

Oops. It's not invisible on my side. It was a song by Aaron Neville called Angola Bound.

I'm not an Assange fanboy, but was very pleased to hear that judgement. I hope that under the new administration the extradition is quietly dropped and Assange gets his life back. Still will never be a fan. (He's not in jail due to the Swedish sexual assault charges, to my knowledge, but solely because of the US extradition request, correct me if I'm wrong.)

The arrest of Assange is just another nail in the coffin of democracy. The only way democracy can function is with a strong and free press. It is a basic tenet of democracy that freedom of the press can help repair any problems that occur through corrupt government. Like when a state shoots journalists from miles away and then tries to cover it up. Without a strong and free press democracy is going to destroy itself.

Bye bye democracy. You used to be cool. Now you're all like lame and old and stupid. Hello totalitarianism. Oh noes you suck even worse than old and lame democracy...

I don't think these type of things threaten our democracies but rather reveal how our democracies were never really as transparent as we want to believe they are. Assange and his collaborators just put a spotlight on it and they're now being made an example of.

Agreed, not a threat, merely a further sign of democracy's decline, its inability to properly evolve with the information age. But even so it is still a foolish move for a country that is a (supposed) champion of the press to so obviously attack a champion of freedom of information. If their intention is to increase the speed of their own decline then "mission accomplished". Any damage done by the collateral murder video is only compounded by this attack on Assange. It is so obvious yet no one in a position of power in any western democracy seems to understand. Not a good sign for the level of intelligence of these leaders.

Looks grim for him atm

Now give us that woman who killed Harry Dunn.

You're only allowed to expose the war crimes of losers. :death:

You're only allowed to expose the war crimes of losers. :death: — unenlightened

:100: :sad:

Assange played with :fire: He got burnt. That's all.

Now give us that woman who killed Harry Dunn. — Michael

Hypocrisy as art.

That's all. — Agent Smith

Yeah, don't think it any further, 'cause you will get hurt.

Fuck Assange. He helped the Russians interfere in the 2016 US elections. Another FSB/GRU tool. Thanks for Trump, Jules! Go. Rot. :shade:

The filthy shit covered face of patriotism.

Fuck Assange. He helped the Russians interfere in the 2016 US elections. Another FSB/GRU tool. Thanks for Trump, Jules! Go. Rot. :shade: — 180 Proof

:up:

The filthy shit covered face of patriotism a putin supporter. — I like sushi

Assange is a hero. Americans only have themselves to blame for a shitty president they deserve.

... you ahistorically babble again from the cheap cheap seats.

:up: