an infinite convergent series sum is a different mathematical object compared to an infinite divergent series as we can have well defined results for earlier one — Wittgenstein
The measure of Cantor set is zero and that requires the existence of an infinite set.
Can you clarify on the representations of geometrical objects using an infinite set, I think finite sets suffice. — Wittgenstein
~~Mephist~~In every case the series (convergent or not) is made of a countable set of 1-dimensional segments of non zero measure. You add segments to obtain a segment, not points.
There is an infinite possibility of line segments with different lengths but if we were to join them, we would never complete the task — Wittgenstein
1.If the segment is not made up of points, is it a non zero measure or something else ? — Wittgenstein
2.Can a divergent series be obtained from an uncountable set, ( I think it can be ) but can a convergent series be obtained from a uncountable set ? ( A sum that is definite must have a fundamental difference to a divergent one ) — Wittgenstein
In C programming, the equivalent symbol to infinity is the volatile keyword. — sime
it also fails to discriminate sets which are volatile and bounded from sets which are volatile and unbounded. — sime
In C programming, the equivalent symbol to infinity is the volatile keyword.
— sime
Jeez that's not true. A volatile variable is one that is, for example, mapped to an external data source. Declaring a variable volatile tells the compiler that it can't depend on nearby code statements in order to optimize the variable. — fishfry
This simply has nothing at all to do with transfinite ordinals and cardinals as understood in math. It's apples and spark plugs.
it also fails to discriminate sets which are volatile and bounded from sets which are volatile and unbounded.
— sime
This has no referent in math. I am not sure where you are getting these notions. — fishfry
Transfinite ordinals divide into those which are specified constructively as tree-growing algorithms and those which denote unspecified trees to be supplied by the environment, whether bounded or unbounded. — sime
infinity is equivalent to volatile and unbounded. — sime
I don't know what is a volatile and unbounded set. Can you provide some examples so I can understand what you're saying? — fishfry
Volatile is not a term of art in math at all. And its use in C programming is very specific as I think we agree. It just tells the compiler not to optimize the variable. — fishfry
The integers are unbounded because you can't draw a finite circle around them all. The unit interval is bounded since all its elements are within 1 unit of each other. Yet the unit interval has far larger cardinality than the integers. So I am not sure what you're trying to get at. — fishfry
distinction between a field such as R and a Galois field. In the latter, given the multiplicative neutral element 1, there is a prime number p such that p⋅1=0. p is called the characteristic of the field. It can be shown that if p is the characteristic of a field, then it must have pn elements, for some natural number n. In addition Galois fields are the only finite fields
But in the galois field, they treat the segment made of points but don't use infinite sets, the one mentioned in the article.Can you send me any article,book recommendations that make your position clear to me cause l may be confusing your point here, I hope not.if you don't allow the existence of infinite sets, you have to treat segments as a different kind of thing than a set of points.
I am terrible at explaining things but at same time I am wondering which one is that which you dont understand.OK, but I don't understand what's your point here.
∑n=infinityn=1∑n=1n=infinity −1nn−1nn , as you can see in this series we have not indexed the set using negative numbers, and l think the series will not be well defined if we do not restrict R to natural numbers.( countable ) — Wittgenstein
I wasn't objecting to a countable set, but to an uncountable set.Then, in modern mathematics a convergent sum of an uncountable set of terms is perfectly normal.
Can you consider this arguement against an infinite set,
What is the probability of an event happening over an infinite amount of events, it would be zero.We can go on and prove that the possibility of any event happening will be zero but that would be absurd if we applied it to the world. — Wittgenstein
My problems is with the use of infinity as a number in certain mathematical problems, for example the lim 1/x as x approaches 0 will be written equal to infinity.But using an equal sign with infinity can be challenged even in its abstract form, l do understand the theory behind limits but in certain cases referring to infinity, mathematicians treat it as a number, not a concept.Nobody claims that the infinite collection [not yet a set, that requires the axiom of infinity] of natural numbers is instantiated in the natural world. It only exists as a mental abstraction, like justice or traffic laws or Captain Ahab.
Consider a mathematical abstraction which describes the world ( quantum mechanics for eg ), l think some mathematical abstraction can co-exist with the real world although some don't.If such an abstraction does not agree with reality as we know, we can drop them even if they are consistent mathematically.Or are you arguing that you accept mathematical abstractions but denying that they're physically real? That's perfectly sensible
I used the probability theory as an example because it is related to the world, but since you claimed it can be made intuitive, l would like you to clear that up. If someone were to talk of negative probability ( fenyman did l think ), where we consider things we do not observe but which do occur in the real world.( l can be wrong here ), that is more understandable than the use of infinity in probability theory.There is also another problem, if all the probability are 0, then the the total probability of all events will not give 1.That is against the law of probability.Further more if you take natural numbers as the domain of probability distribution, it would be not be well defined.In any event, infinitary probability theory is well understood and allows for probability zero events that nevertheless may happen. For example the probability of picking a random real number and having it be rational is zero; yet the rationals are plentiful. [That's not a precise statement, but it can be made precise without loss of intuition].
I would like to quote this for explaining my point of view regarding your objection.. It's hard for me to understand admitting the existence of a collection of sets but denying their union
Since a mathematical set is a finite extension, we cannot meaningfully quantify over an infinite mathematical domain, simply because there is no such thing as an infinite mathematical domain (i.e., totality, set), and, derivatively, no such things as infinite conjunctions or disjunctions
Since in the end you mentioned the defect in set theory, l think we can argue for a constructive case, where a statement is either true or false.Therefore it makes no sense to insist that the sigma algebra of infinite coin tosses must be constructive.
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