• Jacob-B
    97
    Religious Determinism and Free Will

    Few would dispute the view that the theology of the world’s three main monotheistic religions (also known as the Abrahamic religions) are deterministic, It cannot be otherwise. If you believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient (come to think of it omnipotence implies omniscient, you cannot be all powerful without possessing total knowledge), There nothing irrational about a deterministic worldview, it is shared by most scientists and supported by the theories of causality.
    Determinism in the form of predestination is expressed a few times in the scriptures. An example of a ‘hard’ determinism is described in the book of Exodus: God hardens Pharaoh's heart to make him deny Moses’s demand of ‘let my people go’. This example (and there are several similar ones) shows the teleological view of the Bible.

    So, whilst the deterministic worldview of the montheistic religions rules out Free Will, that view stands in sharp contrast to the everyday religious practices. Through preaching and rituals worshipers are led to believe that their adherence to the tenets of their religion and performing good deeds is somehow rewarded in this life or in the afterlife thus implying that there is such a thing as individual Free Will. That contradiction between religious worldview and a religious practice is baffling. I wonder how theologian bridge what to me looks like a glaring incoherence.
  • Frotunes
    114
    What is determinism?
  • deletedusercb
    1.7k
    Few would dispute the view that the theology of the world’s three main monotheistic religions (also known as the Abrahamic religions) are deterministic,Jacob-B

    I think a lot of people would dispute that. Starting in Eden with Adam and Eve's willful disobendience of God. And while there are certainly parts of the Bible/Torah that if taken utterly literally imply that God is omniscient. Lyrical writing need not be literal. In love letters or scripture. To say that God's knowledge is infinite could be taken utterly literally or it could be taken to mean it is so beyond us that it will always seem infinite. Or perhaps it is infinite about what is, but not what is coming (and somehow free will exists). And there are also quotes in the Bible that support free will. So even on the theological level there is much that both leaves room for and even indicates free will. (I am less familiar with the KOran).
    One could also argue that the scriptures are a mix of paradigms, and that the writers perhaps did not notice the contradictions and contrary to what I said, meant that God knew everything in some mathematically pure sense. Both theists and atheists seem to get stuck on these mathematically pure ideas about God's omni-nesses. I think that's silly. To take it so literally. That God must be able to lift stones that he creates too heavy for him to lift and stuff like that. So many arguments over statements that were more ode like, expressing, as humans, do, things in emotional terms, with hyperbole and superlatives, for all sorts of reasons.
  • kudos
    407
    Supposing there were an deity, and they had power over everything, and human existence had no such quality as Free Will, there would be no transgressions of his rule and thereby no need for teachings.
    Really when it comes down to it, it seems to me like science has come to replace religion as a set of ways to act and describe things. From this point of view it is essential that Free Will be destroyed wherever it appears, as it is an existential threat to the idea that all phenomena can be described, analyzed, and studied.
  • jorgealarcon
    15
    Through free will everyone is tested. If there were no free will, how would God test our behavior? How would He know the gold from silver and platinum?
  • Jacob-B
    97
    [sreply="kudos;299978"] No serious scientist ever claims that everything can be analyzed and described. It just that science found better answers to some fundamental questions than religion did.
    Actually, by describing God as omniscient religion id more negative about Fre Will than science.
  • Maximiliano Cruz
    1
    I think that religions want to express trade off between our capacity for freedom and the impulse of the universe in its actual state, including all the variables that fall outside our consciousness.
    As we cannot take in account all the variables that influence each decission, how can we be really free?
    But, on the other hand, we cannot say for sure that our decitions are totally determined by these variables. Is this the place for Chaos or Free Will?
    I find this tradeoff very interesting and constantly find myself wondering this mystery.
  • Gnostic Christian Bishop
    1.4k
    So, whilst the deterministic worldview of the montheistic religions rules out Free Will,Jacob-B

    I do not see that.
    In fact, I have a little test that proves that even under determinism, we still have a free will to exercise that is only constrained by nature and physics.

    It is a really simple test if you would like to give it a go. So far no one has been able to refute or deny that they have a free will.

    You might not even need to take it to change your view if you can recognize that if you have a free will, you can give it up upon request, should you -- chose-- to do so.

    Regards
    DL
  • Jacob-B
    97

    Chaos is caused and in this sense it deterministic but its getting 'life' of its own and sensitivity to initial conditions makes one wonder.
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