• Ilya B Shambat
    194
    There are people who claim that the regular people are – or should be – socialists and are being preyed upon by conservative business and military elites.

    There are other people who claim that the regular people are – or should be - conservatives and are being preyed upon by liberal media and academic elites.

    Both are part-right.

    First of all, what is an elite? An elite is a group of people who got good at something or other. An ethic that celebrates success and achievement should see elites in a positive light. The people who claim America to be the most successful society in history, while viciously attacking the “liberal elites,” are hypocrites. They value success when they have it and attack it when someone else has it.

    The people who are described derisively as “limousine liberals” are, in my mind, heroes. They are people who found out the way to make do in a very hostile climate, while keeping alive their noble ideals. I have nothing but good things to say about these so-called liberal elites. In my experience of dealing with them, they were kind, intelligent and compassionate. And they were willing to act in a humble and respectful manner even though their accomplishments far exceeded my own.

    Of course not everyone in the elites is a good guy; but then neither is the average person. There are plenty of people who are not a part of any elite whatsoever, who are complete jerks. There are many average people who beat their wives, rape their children, slap “hos” and do any number of other ugly deeds. Elites do not own evil. It cuts across social boundaries, and while some people in the elites are indeed evil so are many people who are not part of the elites.

    To claim one's society to be the most successful one ever created, while in the same breath attacking “liberal elites,” is complete hypocrisy. If success is a good thing then other people than oneself who get success should be respected; and if one impugns “liberal elites” then he is impugning success. These people need to make up their minds as to what they value. From what I've seen, they see liberals who don't have success as losers and those who do have success as evil. With some people you just can't win.

    I've been on both the winning and the losing side of capitalism; and in no way am I against success. I am however against hypocrisy, and that is what we see here. If success is a good thing, then liberal elites should be credited with the success that they have achieved. And if they are to be maligned for it, then so should the conservatives who are successful. In either case, it is important to make up the mind. Is success a good thing (and thus the elites should be respected)? Or are the elites to be hated, and also – with them – success?

    I believe that a true American will be respectful of successes that people accomplish, even if those people are nothing like himself. For centuries America has stood as a shining beacon of greatness that people can accomplish. A true American will have respect for the academia, the media and other pursuits that advance the civilization. He will respect the “liberal elites.” And in so doing he will be making good on the true great promise of America.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    I believe that a true American will be respectful of successes that people accomplish, even if those people are nothing like himself. For centuries America has stood as a shining beacon of greatness that people can accomplish. A true American will have respect for the academia, the media and other pursuits that advance the civilization. He will respect the “liberal elites.” And in so doing he will be making good on the true great promise of America.Ilya B Shambat

    Amen, and no argument here.
  • Erik
    605
    You seem to have a narrow understanding of “success”—as being equated with having a respectable career, making lots of money, gaining social recognition, etc. This almost reads like a variant of some Ayn Randian panegyric to the captains of industry, who face resentment from the lowly hoi polloi instead of receiving the praise they deserve.

    Setting aside the contingency and questionabilty of your taken-for-granted understanding of success for a moment, you also omit the relevance of undeserved inherited wealth and status from your considerations. Most elites come from families that have provided them with significant advantages relative to non-elites, so the “winners” often achieve victory through minimal (if any) effort of their own.

    Anyhow, when one rejects the presuppositions of success (and greatness) on which you build your case—ostensibly based on the underlying value system of consumerism—then the argument falls flat, at least for those not in thrall to this way of life. I want a new breed of “elites” who inspire others to move beyond worshiping wealth, beyond subordinating every aspect of existence to economic imperatives; who see human beings as potentially much more than mindless consumers... Let’s get good at that.

    Not a matter of rejecting elites per se, but only the notion that our current “elites”—liberal, conservative, progressive or whatever—are exemplary in ways that should be recognized as such at this stage in history.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    you also omit the relevance of undeserved inherited wealth and status from your considerations.Erik

    Thanks. Saved me from having to mention that.

    An ethic that celebrates success and achievement should see elites in a positive light.Ilya B Shambat

    What if I don't respect or care about the thing they got really good at? Isn't that the real issue of this thread? Which elites should be respected? Elite pickers and flickers? Why are elite footballers very well compensated while elite hop-scotch players get no respect? So you are really discussing an ethic that celebrates a very specific type of "success and achievement". - which @Erik already mentioned, so it appears I am not needed here.
  • andrewk
    2.1k
    For centuries America has stood as a shining beacon of greatness that people can accomplishIlya B Shambat
    To whom does it appear as a shining beacon of greatness? To some people in poor countries that would like to be as wealthy as the average American, sure. To people in other developed countries that have different ideas about what makes a nation great - such as being able to send their kids to school without worrying about them getting shot, or being able to go to hospital if they have a serious injury without fearing they will be financially ruined - not so much.
  • BC
    13.6k
    I believe that a true AmericanIlya B Shambat

    I have some idea what an 'American' is; I don't know what a "true American" is. Adding "true", "perfect", "absolute", and like adjectives to nouns generally doesn't help.

    First of all, what is an elite? An elite is a group of people who got good at something or other.Ilya B Shambat

    I admire "elite" bicyclists who compete in the lead of Tour d'France, or the fastest runners who compete as "elite" runners in marathons. Not all elites deserve our adulation. For instance, "the power elite" are those who have become expert at achieving and wielding power in the corporation or state. The wealth elite are those who have become expert at stealing from everybody else (wealth is theft).

    Power and wealth elites do not have my interests are heart. They have their standing in the power and wealth elites at heart. People do not rise to elite levels in power and wealth by following Jesus, Buddha, and Mo', or being advocates of ordinary people. They must focus on their own, narrow, highly focused self interest.

    I've met a few limousine liberals, sugar plum socialists, and let-them-eat-cake conservatives. Individually, any of them can be pleasant people. Beyond that...

    Of course not everyone in the elites is a good guy; but then neither is the average person. There are plenty of people who are not a part of any elite whatsoever, who are complete jerks. There are many average people who beat their wives, rape their children, slap “hos” and do any number of other ugly deeds. Elites do not own evil. It cuts across social boundaries, and while some people in the elites are indeed evil so are many people who are not part of the elites.Ilya B Shambat

    This is true. Elite people are as capable as ordinary people of behaving badly. I think you will find, however, that the world's really big problems are generally caused by members of elites. Ordinary people just aren't in a position to steal the country blind, start a stupid war, anger the allies, and so forth.

    Apropos to this merry season of Gay Liberation, I once overheard an upward mobile gay guy who wanted to be in the elite say that "Drag queens were causing all the trouble and preventing progress on gay rights." I piped up and contradicted him saying, "No, it is men who are dressed like you -- dark suit, white shirt, tie, and nice shoes who cause most of the world's problems." It isn't the guy's clothes, of course -- dark suit or short dress and spike heels -- that cause the problems. It's the orientation to the interests of the elites that causes the problems. For this fellow, it was the sensitivities of petite bourgeois he was concerned about. 30-some years later, I know that he didn't make it into even this middling elite; far from it. He was wasting his time fretting over a bunch of drag queens.
  • em effer
    2
    Adam Smith said "People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public". The trade of power elites is power and they are constantly conspiring against the public interest to increase their power.
  • Willyfaust
    21
    What u think has been transled from what u have been told. Considering all main stream media is controlled by the " ELITES". ...
  • deletedusercb
    1.7k
    There are people who claim that the regular people are – or should be – socialists and are being preyed upon by conservative business and military elites.

    There are other people who claim that thenregular people are – or should be - conservatives and are being preyed upon by liberal media and academic elites.
    Ilya B Shambat

    It seems to me like we live in an oligarchy and one's success is either through selling oneself into that power and pretending it is not an oligarchy or being part of the upper echalons of that oligarchy, with both of those categories you mention above doing in the mani the bidding of Wall st., while making different noises, and not letting obvious things like industry control of oversigh, Wall st. veto power over any candidate with a chance, industy control of the military adn foreign policy, courts treating the elite and others in different ways (and not simply via better representation,), industry centralizatoin of media, the vast surveillance of the population via government and surveillance capital, smart products and coming smart cities, and the effective depowering of the public via all the preceding, the militarization of law enforcement and the wars on terror and drugs. Any liberal or conservative wothy or either name would have major objections to most of this (albeit for different reasons on some issues) but they move forward with World Wide Wrestling melodramatic 'arguments' while accepted all of the above. All of it. You may be able to find ways conservatives are being hypocritical in their hatred of liberal elites. But if anyone steps otu of the false dichotomy between dems and repbubs, you can see that its just circuses and with dminishing use of bread.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.