Silencing or locking up or torturing people you see as heretics because they have beliefs or practices that don't match yours. — leo
You take this holier-than-thou attitude with your appeal to emotion using an extreme example — leo
Where do you see prevarication coming from? — Mww
.......left without an explanation of truth unless it is objective — AJJ
You’re just axe-grinding against ‘religion’ — AJJ
not wanting to believe in God — AJJ
pretending people who do are looking to “torture people” who believe different — AJJ
It shouldn’t need pointing out that evil isn’t exclusively done by religious believers. — AJJ
Your attitude seems to be we should let people do what they like, including murdering their children, so long as they can provide an excuse. — AJJ
with the world crashing down around you - you say, “Well it’s not actually crashing down,” — AJJ
get upset with anyone who tries to re-establish some order. — AJJ
Very well, but are you not then left with the need to show how it is true that something has participated in it? — Mww
Truth can be properly defined, but I’m not sure that’s the same as an explanation of it. I’m not sure truth being something we discover the participation in, as being any more so. To say truth is that a cognition conforms to its object is irreducible, and perhaps therefore sufficient for an explanation? — Mww
All of this is in your mind, not mine. — leo
You're the epitome of the problem I see with objective truth. — leo
You believe your idea of what I think and what I feel is objective truth, rather than your own projections and your own misconceptions. — leo
You don't know my intentions. You know nothing about me, you just have what you believe. — leo
And I think self-righteous narrow-minded people like you are responsible for making the world I see a worst place to live in, so I won't stop pointing out that your beliefs are not objective truth, they are your point of view. — leo
And regarding what you say about me, your point of view is pure crap, because even if I don't know objective truth, I at least know what I think, whereas you don't. — leo
No need to match because facts are always already in propositional form. — Janus
I don't see the mere existence of disagreement as a problem. Some people think their heads are made of glass. They are wrong. No problem there. — PossibleAaran
Here is the interesting part. I don't think my thoughts and perceptions depend on reality in some "unknown way". Its actually very well understood. See the biology of perception. Any way, even supposing that my perceptions do depend on reality in some unknown way, it does not follow from this that my perceptions don't show me the way things are. The way that they depend on reality might be compatible with them revealing the way things are.
Do you have an argument in mind for the claim that we can't tell how things objectively are? Perhaps you could make it clearer? — PossibleAaran
our judgements in my view cannot coherently be described as “truth” — AJJ
Why judge truth on the basis of a cognition conforming to its object being irreducible? — AJJ
Agreed. Judgements are not described as truth. A state of affairs empirically, or analytic propositions a priori, are described as truths. — Mww
Agreed. Judgements are not described as truth. — Mww
On my view truth is a judgment. — Terrapin Station
Are we drawing a distinction between what my report is existentially dependent upon and what I'm reporting upon?
If facts are true propositions/statements, then the approach you've taken has some purchase.
What if facts are events(what's happened and/or is happening)?
All sorts of things happen that are not in propositional form.
I think we agree here. — creativesoul
And this would mean so long as the fact is objective, the proposition is objectively true? — AJJ
There are two senses of 'fact': facts as verbal statements and facts as ostensive ontological propositions or conceptions of states of affairs. — Janus
I’d rather go with truth is a cognition. — Mww
Those aren't the only senses...
Verbal statements can be false. Propositions can be false. Conceptions can be false.
Facts cannot. — creativesoul
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