Of stillness and death, Of motion and life

TheMadFool

This'll probably come out as poorly thought out but anyway here goes...

If you look at a lot of Eastern philosophies (Indian, Japanese, Chinese, etc.) you notice that one theme that stands out is calming the mind which is expressed quite often as stillness - to not think or more correctly not be distracted by what such philosophies consider as mental garbage. This probably arises from Buddhism and its various versions in the east. Personally I do think there's merit in such practice as I've seen many gurus and lamas in a very "peaceful" state of mind.

However, ever notice animal behavior? Very recently I saw a tiny praying mantis and as I approached it it sensed my presence and immediately froze. It stopped moving completely. This is, if I'm correct, death mimicry. Dead or lifeless things don't move. This is clearly a tactic to escape becoming a meal but the message that it conveys is stillness spells death or lifelessnes.

I'm puzzled by this contrast - on one hand we have spiritual gurus telling us to still our minds and on the other hand we have these tiny, presumably unthinking, animals teaching us that to sit motionless, whether physically or mentally, is to be dead.

Of course there are distinctions to be made e.g. meditation, the principal mode of calming the mind, is not simply shutting down your thoughts and mimicking a rock but what is interesting is it's close to being one, a rock.

Comments

khaled

Well those same gurus also speak of ego death when you’ve been still enough for long enough so maybe the concepts aren’t that far apart

TheMadFool

Well those same gurus also speak of ego death when you’ve been still enough for long enough so maybe the concepts aren’t that far apart — khaled

Are these gurus onto something important or are they psychiatric patients employing some Freudian defense mechanism to escape the hard facts of life?

Shamshir

Have you ever contemplated the phrase 'Rest in Peace'?

I like sushi

↪TheMadFool

Well observed. Extrapolate and reveal the hidden danger of the Buddhist radicals.

Nihilists and Buddhists have a lot in common ;)

fresco

Insect 'stillness' is nothing to do with mind 'stillness'. The first foils predaters, like frogs, whose perceptual mechanism is only attuned to moving prey. The second is a meditation technique aimed at 'being in the moment'.
Now there is an argument that what we call 'self' will dissipate 'in the moment' in the sense that its conditioned values are suspended. This could he thought of as 'death of self', but this has little to do with 'immobily'...more to do with merging with the 'holistic flux'. And the phrase 'born again' which Christians might use in the aftermath their interpretation of such 'emergence' (aka by Christians 'ephiphany') reifies the usage of 'death' as an associated aspect of the process.

khaled

↪TheMadFool

I don’t know and I don’t care enough to find out.

Wayfarer

Suzuki-roshi, in his well-known book Zen Mind Beginners' Mind, indeed says that the practice of zazen is to sit perfectly still, but completely alert, like a frog waiting for a fly to appear.

But if zazen is misinterpreted as trying to suppress thought, then indeed that is criticized as a misunderstanding of the practice.

Possibility

However, ever notice animal behavior? Very recently I saw a tiny praying mantis and as I approached it it sensed my presence and immediately froze. It stopped moving completely. This is, if I'm correct, death mimicry. Dead or lifeless things don't move. This is clearly a tactic to escape becoming a meal but the message that it conveys is stillness spells death or lifelessnes. — TheMadFool

The mantis’ alternative would have been to move contra to its environment, which attracts attention for obvious reasons. Most predators’ eyesight is not as keen as yours. A fish moves in a school and other animals in a herd for the same reason - attracting undue attention has its risks. What message you receive from their stillness/movement is likely unintended. You make your own correlations.

The way I see it, calming the mind or mindfulness is a similar process of becoming attuned to one’s environment, rather than out of step with it. When we are distracted by ‘mental garbage’, we’re out of step with the moment itself, and can bring unrelated thoughts, emotions and experiences to bear on our interactions with the world. This can be unintentionally damaging.

Metaphysician Undercover

Very recently I saw a tiny praying mantis and as I approached it it sensed my presence and immediately froze. It stopped moving completely. This is, if I'm correct, death mimicry. Dead or lifeless things don't move. — TheMadFool

Suzuki-roshi, in his well-known book Zen Mind Beginners' Mind, indeed says that the practice of zazen is to sit perfectly still, but completely alert, like a frog waiting for a fly to appear. — Wayfarer

There is a difference between being still to avoid being preyed upon, and being still in order to prey, but neither involves an inactive mind. Both, I see as an exercising of will.

TheMadFool

There is a difference between being still to avoid being preyed upon, and being still in order to prey, but neither involves an inactive mind. Both, I see as an exercising of will. — Metaphysician Undercover

What you're saying is that the mind has to be active. Why then the emphasis on stillness?

TheMadFool

The mantis’ alternative would have been to move contra to its environment, which attracts attention for obvious reasons. Most predators’ eyesight is not as keen as yours. A fish moves in a school and other animals in a herd for the same reason - attracting undue attention has its risks. What message you receive from their stillness/movement is likely unintended. You make your own correlations.

The way I see it, calming the mind or mindfulness is a similar process of becoming attuned to one’s environment, rather than out of step with it. When we are distracted by ‘mental garbage’, we’re out of step with the moment itself, and can bring unrelated thoughts, emotions and experiences to bear on our interactions with the world. This can be unintentionally damaging. — Possibility

I guess you're right. People buy different stuff from the same market.

I don't think there's a real contradiction in it. After all one must first calm oneself so that we can direct our attention into productive areas.

TheMadFool

Rest in Peace — Shamshir

Death. Hmmmmmm

TheMadFool

Suzuki-roshi, in his well-known book Zen Mind Beginners' Mind, indeed says that the practice of zazen is to sit perfectly still, but completely alert, like a frog waiting for a fly to appear.

But if zazen is misinterpreted as trying to suppress thought, then indeed that is criticized as a misunderstanding of the practice. — Wayfarer

The mind must be active

Shamshir

Death. Hmmmmmm — TheMadFool

The mind must be active — TheMadFool

Must it? Is it incapable of rest, stasis and even death?

Metaphysician Undercover

Why then the emphasis on stillness? — TheMadFool

As I said, it's an exercise of will power.

Of stillness and death, Of motion and life

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