Lots of things:

-I just continue to be negative anyway
-I try to dig myself out of the hole via some kind of fake will, and it doesn't work
-Occasionally, an outside force of some kind intervenes in the everyday, and I have a momentary lapse, but always return to the negative.
-I muster enough will to strong-arm my way out of the negativity (with what seems like the real will), but only for maybe 5 days tops.

Yes...

Step back and relax.
I tend to my garden and make something nice for myself or someone else.

Rather than flail around in the quicksand of negativity, just sink and pass through. Why bother adding insult to one's injury?

I am looking for a tool to handle just this. I cannot shake this intense negative feeling about myself. My energies right now are toxic and I am not sure how to recalibrate it.
Maybe I need to go to church...

Rather than flail around in the quicksand of negativity, just sink and pass through. Why bother adding insult to one's injury? — Shamshir

Yes, it is a wallowsome situation. I've been sleeping in excess of 18h lately, and my head doesn't feel right.

You guys and gals know what I'm really tired of?

This constant self doubting or criticism. That shit gets old faaaaast.

Honestly though, why do you take it to heart? Just speak your doubts, shrug and move on.

Here's a quote:

The unwise man is awake all night,
and ponders everything over;
when morning comes he is weary in mind,
and all is a burden as ever.

I am a person who always goes North. It's who I am. Although I am tired of going North, so tired I cannot bear to live with myself, I cannot stop, because stopping just wouldn't be me, it's not in my nature.

How can I change without being different?

This is a really difficult subject.

I see the automatic quality of the self denigration. I see myself taking pleasure in it while it hurts me.

I feel that I learned this from others but none of the likely suspects are anywhere near as good at it as I am at hurting myself.

I don't have a story that explains it but see that many stories are trying to explain it.

This thing of being trapped in myself is oddly connected to everything else I observe. But if I turn that observation into a thing, I lose sight of the original sighting.

On the positive side, the whole experience has made me very skeptical of certain kinds of reports. I may be dumb as a rock but if I can't trust myself to get out of this mess, I don't trust myself to be the cause of it all either.

I am a person who always goes North. It's who I am. Although I am tired of going North, so tired I cannot bear to live with myself, I cannot stop, because stopping just wouldn't be me, it's not in my nature. — unenlightened

There is a limit though. Where North do you go when you're already at the North Pole?

How can I change without being different? — unenlightened

I don't really know. I suppose it's the kind of difference that makes no real difference. Or rather to put it more bluntly, it's the kind of difference that is actually quite detrimental.

This is a really difficult subject. — Valentinus

Indeed. I find it puzzling that one be negative at all. So, says the depressed person who is suffering at the moment.

I see the automatic quality of the self denigration. I see myself taking pleasure in it while it hurts me. — Valentinus

I find no gratitude over it. It sucks, just being honest here.

I feel that I learned this from others but none of the likely suspects are anywhere near as good at it as I am at hurting myself. — Valentinus

So, elaborate on this if you don't mind. What is it that others have taught you about yourself, that would merit this self-chastizing?

This thing of being trapped in myself is oddly connected to everything else I observe. But if I turn that observation into a thing, I lose sight of the original sighting. — Valentinus

And here I am lost. Please elaborate.

On the positive side, the whole experience has made me very skeptical of certain kinds of reports. I may be dumb as a rock but if I can't trust myself to get out of this mess, I don't trust myself to be the cause of it all either. — Valentinus

Hmm, more questions than answers I suppose.

Just as an elaboration. These sort of 'moods' manifest (in my case) into eventually suicidal ideations.

I am really tired of this sort of chastizing of myself, that goes on daily, without respite.

My hope... Is that I can grow out of these tendencies, that is retarding it.

It is interesting that you understood my remark about taking pleasure in cruelty as a kind of gratitude. I see it more as a perverse joy in hurting things. And who is more convenient to hurt than oneself?

I am pretty sure that I learned how to shame myself by being shamed by others. But the connection does not uncover the automacy of the denigration. Is that not what you are asking about? The way it appears like a bad guest who won't leave despite many entreaties?

It is interesting that you understood my remark about taking pleasure in cruelty as a kind of gratitude. — Valentinus

I can't connect the dots hereabouts, help me out here.

I am pretty sure that I learned how to shame myself by being shamed by others. — Valentinus

:100:

Just as an elaboration. These sort of 'moods' manifest (in my case) into eventually suicidal ideations. — Wallows

I've unrealistically entertained suicide. I just say that as a friend, to attempt to give some sort of context to whatever it is you've experienced. If you've experienced real suicidal thoughts, then at the least, I just wanted you to know I've come up to the cusp of it. I dunno if that's helpful. But that's what I have to offer for now.

And, that I've been there as recently as a few days ago.

Fuck man. I can't do it because of my mom. It's fucking broken logic to see yourself happy at your passing of your mother so you can kill yourself .

There is a limit though — Wallows

It's an analogy, but the limit is death.

How can I change without being different?
— unenlightened

I don't really know. I suppose it's the kind of difference that makes no real difference. Or rather to put it more bluntly, it's the kind of difference that is actually quite detrimental. — Wallows

In words, it is a paradox. but in fact, it happens all the time. I turn right, and walk East, or I turn around and walk south. And that is all the death that is required - the death of going North, or being down on oneself, or whatever the identity is.

There is no 'how'. Identity is a habit of thought, and a 'how' is another habit of thought; what can break a habit of thought is not another habit of thought (that will just become another part of the habit, the way smokers are always 'thinking giving up') or any thought at all, but presence of mind, that sees that it is unnecessary.

I'm tired of my own negativity, so I want to change it but I'm too tired, so my negativity about myself robs me of the power to stop being negative; I don't have the energy to overcome all the energy I'm putting into being negative, because all my energy is going into my negativity.

As soon as I see the whole dreary fruitless circle, I am out of it. If I am not out of it, I haven't seen the whole. I am the thought that goes round and round. Or as the man said:

The observer is the observed. — J.Krishnamurti

There is no 'how'. Identity is a habit of thought — unenlightened

Now, this needs more explication. Shoutout to our forum bodybuilders, ehem, I meant intellectuals.

I take your request to help connect elements seriously but I am concerned that it may not be helpful.
We talked about this stuff many moons ago. I don't want to say if something applies to your situation but stay strictly in how some things help me. Your results will certainly vary.

The caustic effective agent that sweeps into my mind and turns my desires and objectives into crap is so sure of itself. It is me but also not me. So much so that I am a lot like other people that need to be put at a distance and worked around if not to gutter in their extremity.

So, the experience means there are multiple persons who play at being me and I am not the casting director. Maybe I am sleeping with the director but that is mostly a story that i cannot independently verify. I am like an undercover agent planted in the criminal enterprise of my own life.

If you understood that, you are probably at least as screwed up as I am.

Are you getting a feeling for the metrics I am trying to establish here?

If you understood that, you are probably at least as screwed up as I am. — Valentinus

Haha, aren't we all broken 'goods'?

Are you getting a feeling for the metrics I am trying to establish here? — Valentinus

Vaguely, but I follow...

Then claim something for yourself. Otherwise it is all about what others fail to do.

See my thread on Jesus being labeled as a schizophrenic. Lots of juicy meat to eat.

Okay.
But it will take me a bit of mulling.
I only do quickly what requires no time.