I'm interested to hear what others think about this. — Wallows

The lease was up and the Brits were going to leave. Maggie negotiated endlessly to make the handover as smooth as possible. In my opinion, she did a brilliant job. For internal political reasons, she could not provide UK passports to every Hong Kong resident but she made sure that her flagship Commonwealth dominions, i.e. Canada, Australia, and New Zealand took in whoever felt like leaving the crown colony. The rock was simply going to be returned to the rulers in Beijing. The Brits nor their American overlord are going to renege on the handover treaty. No way. It is a done deal. The protesters can protest as much as they want but after expiration of the special administrative regime Hong Kong is slated to become merely one of the so many Chinese municipalities while everybody there will just become an ordinary Chinese citizen. Beijing is obviously not going to cave it. If the rebellious crowd keeps going on, sooner or later the Red army will restore law and order and lock up the most recalcitrant elements in countryside re-education camps, of which China undoubtedly has ample left from the Cultural Revolution. In my opinion, the protesters will achieve nothing at all.

Hong Kong should see an opportunity to direct their energies towards a future where the core tenants of Mao'ism and quite frankly a version of stat'ism into a working methodology. — Wallows

What on Earth are you talking about? Or are you being ironic?

People of Hong Kong enjoyed not only wealth, but also Western freedoms when part of the British and then became mere chess pawns who nobody cared about when China took them over. China had the need to treat them with silk gloves when Western money and investment was important for the country. Now Chinese leaders can show their true face.

Why, oh why would the people of Hong Kong have an 'opportunity' in an utterly dead ideology that is nothing else than a totally empty shell having the name of "Chinese communism" for the purest form of fascism seen in the World now? China is a corporatist fascist state controlled by a single party system that relies on economic growth and nationalism to survive.

The Chinese may talk about communism/socialism, but don't let that fool you. Since Deng Xiaoping, China has had less and less to do with socialism. The government controlled industry and economy is a pure example of fascism: authoritarian nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy. The nearly three hundred billionaires of China should quite well show anybody that the 'socialism' is just pure semantics or parlance. (And as long that economic growth continues, surely it will have genuine supporters)

Now, with this in mind, I don't think a direct opposition towards the powers that be in Hong Kong will ever amount to much, apart from some theatrical resignations. — Wallows

Yeah, I didn't believe at all that Soviet Union could collapse either. They had to believe in what they were talking all the time, right? It was a Superpower. Not a remnant or relic of an old Empire just held up together because of a totalitarian system that everybody had stopped believing in a long time ago.

Hong Kong might not change China, but it can give an example what to do if people get disenchanted with Communist Party rule.

This is possibly the worst-case scenario for China. It's an attack from within the reigning ideology of socialism in China, and why it isn't working for some or quite frankly, many in Hong Kong. I'm interested to hear what others think about this. — Wallows

@ssu did you miss the above? There's is an opening to assert the contents in your post by HK-ers. And, it would be refreshing for them to do so, creating havoc within party circles, as to make their stipulative definition of Chinese communism also be working for Hong Kong.

Now Chinese leaders can show their true face. — ssu

There is an important colonial-history element to the problem. The incredible patience of Beijing has been absolutely commendable. Furthermore, the rulers in Beijing have generally kept to their end of the bargain:

British Hong Kong. Although Hong Kong Island and Kowloon were ceded in perpetuity, the leased area comprised 92 per cent of the territory and Britain considered that there was no viable way to divide the now single colony, while the Chinese Communist Party would not consider extending the lease or allowing British administration thereafter. Britain eventually agreed to transfer the entire colony to China upon the expiration of that lease in 1997 after obtaining guarantees to preserve its systems, freedoms, and way of life for at least 50 years.

The existing geopolitical context could not have yielded any other result. Therefore, I really do not grasp how the protesters could gain anything or achieve anything by confronting the political bureaucracy in Beijing, who are merely restoring the unity of one China. I do not see any other option to hedge against a possible dislike of rule from Beijing, which is even quite premature, than to (belatedly) obtain a second passport.

Concerning Taiwan, I predict that Beijing will not remain patient forever either. Beijing will ultimately seek to recover their rebellious province:

In the case of the United States, the One-China Policy was first stated in the Shanghai Communiqué of 1972: "the United States acknowledges that Chinese on either side of the Taiwan Strait maintain there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China. The United States does not challenge that position."

I do not understand why anybody would seek to confront (or even humiliate) Beijing on these matters. Some political parties in Taipei are playing with fire in that regard.

ssu did you miss the above? There's is an opening to assert the contents in your post by HK-ers. And, it would be refreshing for them to do so, creating havoc within party circles, as to make their stipulative definition of Chinese communism also be working for Hong Kong. — Wallows

What opening?

Am I understanding you correctly? Do you think that the people of Hong Kong could change China because they could "ask for socialism"? As if they could say: "Hey, we are just asking what Maoism was about". Is that your idea? Change from inside the party?

You seem not have noticed either what I wrote. I'll rephrase it: 1) the Chinese communist party has long since replaced socialism with de facto fascism. 2) It is a totalitarian state. China is socialist in name only. It truly doesn't give a fuck about socialist ideals as they have literally experienced that socialism doesn't work. They have had the debacle of the Cultural Revolution for that. Just like they don't give a damn about workers rights (which is typical in an 'Workers Paradise'). What they believe in is state lead capitalism and they will crush anything that can be seen as a threat to their power. And that's why I call it fascism.

And you are assuming somehow that the Chinese communist party would be open for new ideas. As if they would want to reinvent or find again socialism or whatever. This is a really strange and naive idea. You have to understand that a Marxist Leninist Party is a totally different animal than a political party in a democracy.

Concerning Taiwan, I predict that Beijing will not remain patient forever either. Beijing will ultimately seek to recover their rebellious province — alcontali

They will just have to wait a couple of years that the US makes up it's own problems so bad that the US either it will not care or doesn't have the ability anymore to care about Taiwan.

With patience you can overcome the Americans as they have none.

Understood. I am merely asserting that there is a chance instead of an ongoing escalation of tensions to utilize the pen rather than the sword. I honestly don't think there is any reason why not to write articles and opinions on the flavor of what you call fascism (although I think this trivializes the discussion) ongoing in China and the detrimental effects of it as seen now in Hong Kong.

It's hard to imagine where this might anger the PRC anywhere more than originating from Hong Kong.

Yes? No? Maybe?

Talking about fascism might indeed trivialize the discussion as the word is just a meaningless swearword used to berate something one doesn't like (and people don't know what it actually would be about).

It's hard to imagine where this might anger the PRC anywhere more than originating from Hong Kong.

Yes? No? Maybe? — Wallows

Protests in Beijing would be noted. Just like in 1989 when they did happen.

I think the Communist party will never forget that. That's why they fear any protests.




But you can turn it the other way around: assume if the people of Hong Kong were totally happy and went on with their life as usual. What would that tell you about China then? That would be actually more scary as then you would have a case example of that people indeed can be as OK in an totalitarian state as in one that formerly had all the free speech and etc. stuff.

The thing is that Hong Kong is the perfect 'canary in the coal mine' showing the true nature of China.

This I think is important during a time when one half of America fear fascism and neonazis taking over and ruining the Republic and the other half fears cultural marxists taking over and ruining the Republic. Events in Hong Kong show where the lines of true authoritarianism and the acceptance and tolerance of it go with people that have stilla taste Western freedoms.

The thing is that Hong Kong is the perfect 'canary in the coal mine' showing the true nature of China. — ssu

It doesn't have to be perfect. Just that it's better than what's going on there in terms of escalation of tensions and what have you. I don't want to sound daft; but, I assume you know better where this might end... And, strange thing is that that's something China doesn't seemingly want a repeat of.

True. Demonstrations can die out in a whimper and protest movements can fade away. Just remember how Occupy Wall Street ended.

And yes, naturally the Chinese know that sending the tanks into a city and having pictures of dead protesters on the streets will hurt Chinese business around the World.

If the rebellious crowd keeps going on, sooner or later the Red army will restore law and order and lock up the most recalcitrant elements in countryside re-education camps, of which China undoubtedly has ample left from the Cultural Revolution

The camps are full of muslims right now and they're building lots more. Sounds like paranoia at the top to me.