I didn't see anyone comment on this aspect/distinction/ item #2:

1. Proud of children, country, accomplishment's/self-esteem, etc.
2. Ego: exaggerated self worth.

Item two is also the one that is generally connected with the sin of pride... . For example; wars, violence, stubbornness, narcissism, et al..

What are your thoughts about pride? — Wallows

Jane Austen said all there is to say about it.

I've been wondering about this concept central to masculinity. In my mind, there's nothing more central and grounding for a man to feel prideful. — Wallows

It's a great theme. Pride is something like the enjoyment of (a sense of ) status.

In its more 'innocent' form, it's maybe conforming to the norm, being good enough. 'I am a brave solider, a good doctor, a compassionate friend, a responsible citizen.'

In its more exciting (sometimes toxic) form, it's the cult of the genius. To succeed as an artist is to be a one-of-a-kind item, an alpha in the Brave New World. And then there's the more practical sense of wielding political or economic power (Logan Roy).

Who would you rather be, Kurt Cobain (despite his end?) or some rich VP of SomeCorp? Or to make it more interesting, the choice is between being a posthumously discovered great artist who lives mostly without recognition or again some rich person who lives in luxury but is otherwise not glamorous.

I'm trying to emphasize a distinction between 'quality' and pure material power, or the 'spiritual' versus the blandly economic. The question is related to whether it's better to live a low-stress life in a simple cabin with lots of books but no one to command or a high stress life with lots of money and menials. In other words, what is noble? (I realize I left out many other fascinating options, like activism for instance.)

What are your thoughts about pride? — Wallows

Could you not love pride? In that case, are you not loving yourself?
Because the one that has pride, has pride only by himself. Pride, in the case of having of others, is misused, since the correct term would be "admiration".


Lets say that pride is a "First Person Only" use, in the subject and object. (I can only have pride by I)

Therefore, admiration is a "Thrid Person Only" use, but only in the object (I can have admiration for He)

I think it is useful to distinguish between two senses of "pride". Both bear a kind of opposite relationship to the concept of "shame", but a different kind of opposite relationship that I think can be more clearly expressed in functional notation.

One sense of pride is the negation of shame about something. proud(x) = ~ashamed(x).

The other sense of pride is shame at the negation of something: proud(x) = ashamed(~x)

Something like Gay Pride is usually used in the first sense. Gay Pride is usually just about not being ashamed to be gay. It's not about being gay being superior to being non-gay; just about being gay being not-inferior to being non-gay, because there are people who assert that being gay is inferior.

Something like White Pride, on the other hand, is usually used in the second sense. White Pride is usually about how there is something shameful about not being white. It's about being white being superior to being non-white, not just about being white being not-interior to being non-white, because nobody is asserting that being white is inferior.

That second sense isn't always bad though. Most of the kinds of pride in achievements are of that second kind. For example I'm proud to have gotten good grades in school, in that I would feel ashamed to have gotten bad grades, and I'm glad that I didn't. I think it only becomes toxic when someone has that kind of pride about things that either aren't actually rankable in terms of superiority or inferiority (like race, sex, etc), or about things that are beyond someone's personal control (like how rich or poor your family is, or what abilities or disabilities you were born with). About those things, it is more appropriate to feel pride only in the first sense, of being merely unashamed.