This objection is interesting, and I am not fully convinced by any response. — robbiefrost

One possible response that I have found for your concern is that God maybe does enact this punishment immediately after death. For Him, an eternity in purgatory could feel like 2 seconds, He may not sense time in the same way we do. Also, purgatory is dependent on the severity of the live one lived. If someone was an extremely corrupted sinner, they will spend a long time in purgatory. If someone was as close to saintly as possible, they will only send a short stint in purgatory before being allowed to their well-deserved eternity in heaven.

To refine the argument, I think the case for purgatory takes the following form:
1.If an all-loving God can't send people to eternal hell, there must be some other way for God to relinquish people of Sin before sending them to heaven.
2. If there is some way for God to relinquish people of Sin before sending them to heaven, then God should require a prolonged bout in purgatory before a corrupted soul is allowed into heaven.
3. Therefore, God should require a prolonged bout in purgatory before a corrupted soul is allowed into heaven.

This argument seems to be sound. Thoughts?

urgatory in my philosophy of religion class and the gist of the argument for purgatory is along the lines of Hell — robbiefrost

We entered Hell the moment we were exiled from the Garden of Eden. This was our separation from God and to Whom we struggle to return.

We have been discussing the argument for/against Purgatory in my philosophy of religion class — robbiefrost

"Purgatory" doesn't exists as much as "Heaven". All we have is our planet, our home, Earth, and we tranform it on abstract ways unto a Paradise and/or purgatory.
So, what are you doing for Earth? Do you want it to be "Heaven" or "Purgatory"?

`Hi Robbiefrost,
It doesn’t seem like you are advocating for a specific side here, but some of the questions you have raised are interesting. So, I’ll do my best to respond to one of the situations you proposed.
P1) Purgatory exists and is a place where the soul is refined before entering heaven.
P2) If purgatory exists and God is omnipotent, then he desires to, and can, refine souls after death.
P3) If he desires to, and can, refine souls after death, then he could/would do this immediately after death.
P4) Purgatory, as most popularly understood, is not an immediate process after death

Some kind of contradiction arises if all of these premises are true, and that seems like the question you are raising. And if that is true, I’d like to challenge one of them to see if there really is a problem here.

Premise 3 seems like the one to flesh out a response to if I want to defend purgatory as a process rather than a moment. I think it is reasonable to assume that if God does not instantaneously refine our souls this side of death, it is unlikely that he will do it on the other side. It seems like this Free Will thing really, really matters to God. In order for Purgatory to do its thing and it not be a robot factory that wipes your mind and gives you the one that God thinks you should have, it seems like God has to allow you to take up the challenge yourself. I guess I see this as more plausible than the other scenario because it reflects how people change in this life: God chooses not to force our hands, nor make transformation a quick process, because we fail to really change with these methods of instruction. It also would line up with some of the theodicies made in response to the problem of evil, specifically soul- and saint-making. If purgatory exists, it may just be the continuation of process. If this is the case, we might find that Hell too exists, as people may continually choose to refrain from the refining process after death as they did before. But eternity is a loooooong time, so who really knows.

That is, God, in His infinite mercy and justice, would not damn even the worst sinner to eternal punishment. — robbiefrost

We have been discussing the argument for/against Purgatory in my philosophy of religion class and the gist of the argument for purgatory is along the lines of Hell being a difficult thing to remedy with an all-powerful and all-good God and that Purgatory is a way to solve this dilemma — robbiefrost

Well, it appears that the people running the show have finally come to their senses. Given our relatively short lifespans and the fact that no matter how evil a person is fae can't be infinitely evil, what in the Sam Hill can a person do that would justifiably invite eternal punishment? Hell doesn't make sense but I can't say the same thing about purgatory. Also, if the people incharge are aiming for more realism in their beliefs why not just take that to its logical conclusion and close up shop and call it a day? Makes me wonder what all this small tweaks and fine adjustments will lead to in, say, a thousand years or so? Arguably, something unrecognizable to our eyes.

Here's what you do. Go to the bathroom, get yourself some coffee or water or whatever and some cookies or a sandwich, sit down at your desk, take a blank piece of paper, pencil in hand, and try to work out what you-all are doing in your class. And do not get up until you do. This you shall have to figure out for yourself. But you will know when you do - that's how you'll know. And you will feel a sense of relief, of a burden being lifted, a little silly, and a sense of being newly empowered in your academic pursuits. These because you will have figured out why you're there.

P1) Purgatory exists and is a place where the soul is refined before entering heaven.
P2) If purgatory exists and God is omnipotent, then he desires to, and can, refine souls after death.
P3) If he desires to, and can, refine souls after death, then he could/would do this immediately after death.
P4) Purgatory, as most popularly understood, is not an immediate process after death — DPKING

First off, what would you define Purgatory as? As P1 states, Purgatory is the step before heaven. If a soul is refined enough, it goes directly to heaven. But if the soul is not refined enough, it stops at Purgatory where it can be further refined. Once the soul is refined, then it can enter heaven. What happens in Purgatory that refines the soul? Is Purgatory the waiting room before God decides where a soul goes? That would mean that nothing happens to the soul while waiting and it is just sat there, marinating or proving like dough before a bake. Or is Purgatory a center where the soul is processed and developed before God decides the soul’s fate? Like kneading and reshaping dough before the bake. In that case, the soul changes while in Purgatory.

Next, I will challenge P3, that God could/would refine the soul immediately after death. If God could refine a soul immediately after death, what’s the point of Purgatory? If God can immediately refine the soul, then it should go to either Heaven or Hell straight after death. If God has the power to decide where the soul goes, then Purgatory is an unnecessary stop between the two options. If the soul is destined for heaven but still needs to be refined a bit, why can’t it refine while in heaven?

It seems like this Free Will thing really, really matters to God. In order for Purgatory to do its thing and it not be a robot factory that wipes your mind and gives you the one that God thinks you should have, it seems like God has to allow you to take up the challenge yourself. — DPKING

What can you do in Purgatory that you could not do on Earth? Purgatory is starting to sound like a second chance. It’s sounding like a place where God gives us the last chance to choose how our soul will end up.

God chooses not to force our hands, nor make transformation a quick process, because we fail to really change with these methods of instruction. — DPKING

Since God does not want to force His hand because of Free Will, then something must be happening in Purgatory that He does not touch. Is He allowing the soul to continue playing out? Is it a second life for the soul or a last chance? Is Purgatory just a pre-Heaven or pre-Hell then?

if God is all-power and can cleanse the soul why wouldn't He do so immediately after death — robbiefrost

Or before birth, filling the world with nobody but perfect saints and heroes who do no wrong, not because they can’t, but because they wouldn’t, they’re just not the kind of people who would want to.

Purgatory is starting each day knowing nothing about Algebra, painstakingly learning it only to go to sleep with a headache and wake up like it never happened. :rage:

When my cousin got married, his wife was heaven. Two weeks later, she became purgatory. Long before her divorce, her in-laws were hell.

When my cousin got married, his wife was heaven. Two weeks later, she became purgatory. Long before her divorce, her in-laws were hell. — Miguel Hernández

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