• Craiya
    15
    "The Joker movie is full of violence and is supporting it." Isn't that quite arrogant to say?

    Just because a movie might have this vibe does not mean you should ignore all the other things happening in there.

    There was nearly no hate whatsoever on the John Wick movie, even tho he killed people simply because of his dog. Yet, there was nothing much said about that. So... As long as "you have a good reason to" it is okay to get revenge? Even if it includes a murder?

    Classic action movies include this "move" and use it a lot.

    E.g.: The protagonist's parents were killed and so he/she decices to do the same to their enemy - the antagonist. This should automatically make the protagonist a so called false protagonist.

    False Protagonist, according to Wikipedia: A false protagonist is presented at the start of the fictional work as the main character, but is then removed from the role, often by killing them (usually for shock value or as a plot twist) or changed in terms of their role in the story.

    This protagonist's life purpose is to now find the killer of his/her parents and return the favor. Yet, viewers are all good about that, maybe even cheering for him/her to do so. Why?

    Arthur is being treated badly by society. That is so much more intense than loosing a loved one.

    This might be a bit of out of context, however, I somehow want to compare it to sadness and depression.

    Everybody expericnes sadness, so everybody can relate to John Wick (especially because it was a cute dog which was taken from him), but depression is not experienced by many (maybe it'd be better to use the term - by "most"). And so, they start to judge something they don't understand, as always.
  • Nils Loc
    1.4k
    The psychology of resentment hits so much closer to home in Joker than in John Wick. I felt a lot for the character and the tone of the movie is quite serious. Any of the forces responsible for a violence born from this kind resentment are already primed by corresponding social conditions (or perceived injustices).

    I could barely stand to sit through John Wick because it was so boring (action sequences were so repetitive). There is little emotional resonance with the protagonist.
  • ZhouBoTong
    837
    Arthur is being treated badly by society. That is so much more intense than loosing a loved one.Craiya

    I tend to agree, but this sort of gives a lot of people the OK to rebel against those (or the whole society) who treat them poorly.

    Now to be fair, this sort of situation:
    E.g.: The protagonist's parents were killed and so he/she decices to do the same to their enemy - the antagonist. This should automatically make the protagonist a so called false protagonist.Craiya
    Is equally problematic as revenge becomes justification for anything.

    I agree with your overall point, but would suggest that people have a problem with Joker because it is too real. There are lots of people who feel left out of society. We already have (in the US), a lot of mass killings by those who feel voiceless (despite many being white males); people feel like Joker would encourage that. However, for something like John Wick, being a super-assassin is part of the premise. So no ordinary person COULD go on a similar revenge spree. John Wick comes across like Coyote and Roadrunner cartoons, Joker seems to be making actual societal commentary.

    But overall I agree, both movies are showing a type of revenge violence, with potentially Joker being more justified (how many people did John Wick kill along the way before actually killing the one responsible for his dog's death?...why does he continue killing after getting revenge for the dog?).

    I could barely stand to sit through John Wick because it was so boring (action sequences were so repetitive). There is little emotional resonance with the protagonist.Nils Loc

    Interesting, I was bored by Joker and liked John Wick...but that is likely tied to the fact that I almost never emotionally resonate with any protagonist (or antagonist before you go thinking I am sort of psycho, haha). Actions and moments may resonate, but rarely the whole character.

    The psychology of resentment hits so much closer to home in Joker than in John Wick.Nils Loc

    Entirely agreed. I think that is why there are some people that whine about the violence in Joker, but don't even consider whether the violence in John Wick is also problematic.
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