Respect to the human rights or justice. Call it as you like. — David Mo
In any case, if Jews were to lose power then the Arabs would take control and Jews would once again be second class citizens as they are in other Arab countries and open themselves up to the possibility of massacres as they have faced in the past. — BitconnectCarlos
But I know the counter argument that two wrongs don't make a right. I agree. But, let's look at the facts on the ground. The West Bank and Gaza did not want to form into a state between 1948-1967. Or at least, Jordan and Egypt didn't want to encourage this. They wanted the whole thing or nothing at all. Israel got the West Bank and Gaza, and the Sinai, after being threatened from imminent attack in 1967 and again in 1973.
Then came an intractable problem — schopenhauer1
Let's not start with counterfactual scenarios. — David Mo
Just to be clear here, you're saying that the mere existence of a Jewish state constitutes oppression and discrimination. — BitconnectCarlos
In any case, if Jews were to lose power then the Arabs would take control and Jews would once again be second class citizens as they are in other Arab countries and open themselves up to the possibility of massacres as they have faced in the past. — BitconnectCarlos
Yet, that is exactly how history can be analyzed. — schopenhauer1
I don't see anything you said as countering the fact that this is about an issue of the inability to negotiate. — schopenhauer1
I'm not saying that at all. Read again.
You find the basic laws of israel to be racist. the basic laws set out the very idea, the very concept of the state. they define its purpose and basic ideas. — BitconnectCarlos
could you tell me your version of an acceptable jewish state? — BitconnectCarlos
edit: you admitted earlier that you don't accept the idea of an ethno-state regardless of whether its armenia, kurd, etc. if there's minorities living under it so the implication here is presumably that israel needs to kick out its minorities for it to become acceptable in your eyes and only allow jews to become citizens. — BitconnectCarlos
If that's what you think I'm implying you are an absolute fool.
The controversial "Nation State Law", also called "Basic Law", is not quite the same as the "basic laws of Israel". The piece of legislature I linked to has been passed in the Knesset in 2018.
It's a fascinating part of history. Here's a good starting point.The unified Jewish kingdom only existed in the mythical period of Saul, David and Solomon. — David Mo
I'll loop around one more time here. You seem be implicitly acknowledging in this sentence that there are (or should be) some rules to govern who should own the land.If these perverse foundations of law became widespread — David Mo
Not the story they taught me.
The best-seller books of history maybe. — David Mo
Do you blame the Jews for not knowing how to negotiate with Hitler? — David Mo
the implication here is presumably that israel needs to kick out its minorities for it to become acceptable in your eyes and only allow jews to become citizens. — BitconnectCarlos
As you have correctly noted, the Israeli/Palestinian situation is not unique. While each situation has it's own unique history (and range of solutions) there is still the underlying question - how to resolve disputes over land ownership. — EricH
When did Palestinians ever have a chance to "negotiate" with Israelis?When did Jews in Europe ever have a chance to "negotiate" with Hitler? — schopenhauer1
don't know what you really meant by counterfactual history. What I meant was that a major part of history is analyzing the decisions that were made and how that negatively or positively affected a later outcome — schopenhauer1
Palestinian terrorism would justify Israel's state terrorism, but not vice versa. — David Mo
A state will do what is in its power to stop terrorism or threat to its population. — schopenhauer1
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.