I think it might be a choice.

What is happiness anyway, is it real or just some chemical reaction?

At the moment I have no competing interests or wants and kinda feel happy. — Wallows

That’s a bit like a meditative state, isn’t it?

is it real or just some chemical reaction? — Brett

Chemical reactions are real.

As to whether or not and why not happiness may or may not be a choice, I think it's worth reflecting on the nature of choice in general.

As I see it, and to my understanding psychological and neurological research backs this up, we are not actively intervening in the moment when we make the decisions that we make. Rather, we review the decisions we made in retrospect and construct a narrative about why we did what we did. But I think it's important that that narrative is not only looking backward, but looking forward. It's not just an explanation of what happened in the past, but a script for the future.

I think of it as though we are each a parent to ourselves. Imagine yourself as a ghost following a child around. You can speak into the child's mind, and watch his actions, but you cannot control him directly, physically move his body, or directly alter his mind. All you can do is watch what he does, try to figure out why he's doing what he does, and give him education and positive or negative feedback so that in the future he will maybe do things differently.

That child is you. You can't make yourself do something, but you can try to understand why you do things, teach yourself, and give yourself positive or negative feedback so that in the future you will maybe do things differently.

Now back to the topic: can you make the child happy? Why or why not?

You can't just reach into his brain and force him to be happy, just like you cannot force him to do anything. But you can teach him and give him feedback on his actions that will, hopefully, encourage happiness in him in the future.

Also, if something is chemically wrong with the kid, you can try giving him some medications to fix that.

One big conclusion I've reached this past year of existential dread is that often times, the feeling of things being fine or awful, hopeful or desperate, meaningful or meaningless, etc, come first, and then (like the post-hoc narrative of our actions) we find things to pin those feelings on, rather than external things putting those feelings into us. (Though that often happens too, of course). If your brain is just chemically in an "everything is awful" pattern, you will find things to feel awful about, even if they're things you already knew and didn't feel awful about before. Conversely, if your brain is just chemically in an "everything is great" pattern, you will find things to feel great about, finding joy and beauty even in ordinary little things that you might have otherwise overlooked.

I've have some limited success in trying to focus on those little things I might otherwise have overlooked as a way to jump-start the feel-good pattern in my own brain. Taking walks around my neighborhood at sunset and photographing ordinary little flowers I see in people's yards along the way is one of my go-to cheer-me-ups.

I agree that it does seem that you cannot chose happiness. But I do know from experience that you can turn a negative frame of mind around and feel” happier”. That may be a matter of experience. I also know you can also chose not to get yourself out of a negative frame of mind and instead wallow in it.

Sorry, I didn’t see your last two paras when I replied. Or did you add them?

I finished adding them at almost the same second you posted your reply. No worries. :-)

I've have some limited success in trying to focus on those little things I might otherwise have overlooked as a way to jump-start the feel-good pattern in my own brain. — Pfhorrest

Do you think this is a skill. Because aren’t you essentially overriding the chemical negativity and purposely applying positive actions, that you know from experience help?

Yep, that's exactly my point.

Do you even want to be happy all the time? Happy when bad shit happens? Happy when people near you are in trouble? Happy when the mad axeman asks you to bare your neck?

When I am unhappy with things, I'm motivated to make them better - run away from the mad axeman, comfort the sick neighbour, clean up the shit. Right now I want to take away your happy pills 'coz they won't do you no good.

Do you even want to be happy all the time? Happy when bad shit happens? Happy when people near you are in trouble? Happy when the mad axeman asks you to bare your neck? — unenlightened

No, just a little more joyful, I suppose?

Right now I want to take away your happy pills 'coz they won't do you no good. — unenlightened

Yeah; but, I aint on any to begin with.

Look, I just came out of a suicide attempt, what should I do?

These lives are harsh.

There's no getting away from the intensity of your vessel's base pain, unless you like meagre suppresion.

You can do literally anything in your vessel. A lot of troubles may come from your own sense of restriction - a statically average malfunction. I'm someone who believes in heaven and hell. Once this pain is through, unless you deserve another term, there's a huge jump in potential comfort.

What should you do based on this information? Waste, or don't waste yourself, but realise time and how things can quickly change.

At the moment I have no competing interests or wants and kinda feel happy. — Wallows

That sounds like simplifying to me. Remove what’s not working or complicating things. Keep only what you need.

Happiness is joy when smiling. There's euphoria to it. If you want to be happy, you need to generate euphoria. Try gaming. Try art.

Lot's of evil people in the world, you may find kindness is scarce.

You think of good movement, even if that is just the blood flow of a "dead fish in the stream."

There is a good side, use it.

Sex isn't that great, neither is love. I'd enjoy life like a solipsist. Being alone ain't that bad. Then again, I'm in moral comfort, I don't have to fret about beauty or ability - if that restricts, even your alone time, then I'm sorry for you. If not, great, because it's time to think about how I've not been out in over a Decade, bar a few. Alone, can work. You're free to cease to exist in your mind and you can imagine you were someone else, if that helps.

Do you even want to be happy all the time? — unenlightened

I do. I want to be rationally motivated to do things that will help other people be happy and keep me and them alive to continue being happy, and then so long as I'm doing the best I can toward those goals, be happy with the things that are already good and calmly undeterred by the things that are still going wrong.

I've have some limited success in trying to focus on those little things I might otherwise have overlooked as a way to jump-start the feel-good pattern in my own brain.
— Pfhorrest

Do you think this is a skill. Because aren’t you essentially overriding the chemical negativity and purposely applying positive actions, that you know from experience help? — Brett

Do you even want to be happy all the time? Happy when bad shit happens? Happy when people near you are in trouble? Happy when the mad axeman asks you to bare your neck? — unenlightened

The same things that Pfhorrest describes above that helped him "learn" to be happy more often can apply to your scenarios. The goal would not be to be "happy" in each of those examples, but to be LESS upset, worried, or scared.

When I am unhappy with things, I'm motivated to make them better - run away from the mad axeman, comfort the sick neighbour, clean up the shit. — unenlightened

And that is the purpose of negative emotions. However, most people feel them for far longer, and more intensely, than what is needed to act as motivation. Notice that if a person is too scared, they might freeze instead of run away.

Right now I want to take away your happy pills 'coz they won't do you no good. — unenlightened

I would think you would NOT have to "take the happy" pills from someone who practices emotional control. While they can choose to be happy most of the time, they will have shaved off the highs and lows. Part of being happy all the time (or the vast majority) is never being ecstatically happy...with great highs come substantial lows.

I have never studied Stoicism, but when people describe it here, it sounds very similar.

Can anyone elaborate as to why isn't happiness a choice?

I mean we all want it, and even it seems some need it; but, very recently I view it as a choice between competing interests. At the moment I have no competing interests or wants and kinda feel happy.

What would you do? — Wallows

What do you mean by happiness and what do you mean by choice?

I want to be rationally motivated to do things that will help other people be happy and keep me and them alive to continue being happy, and then so long as I'm doing the best I can toward those goals, be happy with the things that are already good and calmly undeterred by the things that are still going wrong. — Pfhorrest

I don't. I want to be angry about injustice, worried about my children, desperately sad about the state of the world, agonised by love, and frightened, mainly, of becoming an unfeeling grinning mannequin. To choose only happiness would be to reject most of life.

I don't. I want to be angry about injustice, worried about my children, desperately sad about the state of the world, agonised by love, and frightened, mainly, of becoming an unfeeling grinning mannequin. To choose only happiness would be to reject most of life. — unenlightened

What good will being a tormented soul do you?

Seems to me that everyone wants to be happy; but, doesn't know at what price that comes.

Seems to me that everyone wants to be happy — Wallows

If you define happiness as getting what you want, then everyone wants to be happy, because everyone wants what they want. But this says very little.

What good will being a tormented soul do you? — Wallows

Interesting that you regard any strong feeling as torment. I dare say you are not alone.

If you define happiness as getting what you want, then everyone wants to be happy, because everyone wants what they want. But this says very little. — unenlightened

So, what then?

Interesting that you regard any strong feeling as torment. I dare say you are not alone. — unenlightened

What do you mean?

Seems to me that everyone wants to be happy; but, doesn't know at what price that comes. — Wallows

I think most people have no idea what happiness is. It remains some vague idea in their heads, usually related to the possession of material things. Not that they can be blamed too harshly; this is what society teaches us.

If happiness is sought in external things, it truly becomes the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

If happiness is sought internally, suddenly happiness starts looking a lot more like a choice.

Happy when the mad axeman asks you to bare your neck? — unenlightened

Since when does the mad axeman ask first?

Happiness is an emotional state--not just simply that, but that among other things. Can you choose emotions like love, rage, fear, etc? Here you are, sitting in your comfy chair on a bright, sunny California day. You feel 'ok'. Nothing much is bothering you. Can you, at that moment, decide to feel rage, like throwing a switch? No.

Our emotions don't just pop up, like mushrooms. Circumstances, events, various factors bring them about. If you went to the grocery store and, while there, @unenlightened's mad axewoman entered the Safeway and started whacking people (before she was shot by the security guard), you might very well feel a great deal of fear--assuming you weren't one off the victims, put permanently beyond feeling anything.

Concersely, if, while standing in the checkout line at the mad axewoman-free grocery store, you struck up a fascinating conversation with a really interesting person (not the mad axewoman), and the conversation continued for an hour or so outside the store, you would probably feel contented, happy, or pleased--any number of positive emotions.

There are many things you can choose to do (quit a horrible job, end a horrible relationship, do vigorous exercise, practice the piano, make a chocolate cake...) and some of these acts might contribute to feelings of happiness, at least for a while.

Re-engineering different thoughts and feelings might be a losing proposition. I'm not sure how successful we can be at that game. My guess is that people who are happy are lucky in their arrangement of thoughts, beliefs, habits, and practices, and are blessed with a tendency to feel 'happy'.

Can anyone elaborate as to why isn't happiness a choice?

I mean we all want it, and even it seems some need it; but, very recently I view it as a choice between competing interests. At the moment I have no competing interests or wants and kinda feel happy. — Wallows

Happiness is a goal to which everyone inescapably aspires; how they get there is a matter of choice, everyone takes a different path

Since when does the mad axeman ask first? — Bitter Crank

Since he was an Englishman, obviously.

1 Now when Jesus saw the crowds, he went up on a mountainside and sat down. His disciples came to him, 2 and he began to teach them. He said: 3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Surprisingly, Jesus does not say how happy are the lottery winners, those whose wives give great head, popular politicians, and receivers of honours, emmys, baftas, Nobel laureates, etc or people who are well tranquillised.

Jesus isn't saying anything about who is or isn't happy there. He's saying that various groups of people are blessed, as in fated to receive good things, which he lists. Some of them are people who are suffering in various ways, who are blessed with the alleviation of their suffering. Some of them are people doing good things / being good people, who are blessed with rewards for that goodness. Presumably, the things these people are blessed with are things that will make them happy.

He doesn’t mention happiness even once. Rather, he mentions heaven, comfort, inheritance, fulfillment, mercy, vision, title, persecution, and reward. I suggest that this all boils down to meaning. There can be pleasure, but there’s no happiness without meaning.

While we are at it, why isn't fruit a bicycle?

Animals that understand abstract concepts are more prone to depression and the severe consequences of continual prolonged depression. In general it is good to be happy. Its one of those things that if you are sad for too long you just stop caring about certain abstract concepts. Money is an abstract concept.

Cheers friend.