On point... :ok:

Yes, if we changed many aspects of society things would be better for those who have mental health issues. — Isaac

Can you provide your thoughts about the specific type of change that would allow those with mental disorders or issues to lead a more fulfilling life?

Yes, modern psychology is flawed. It conflates thought, belief, and feelings, and often has the goal of making the patient 'feel' better.

I'd join the line of people complaining that psychiatrists over prescribe medication and hospital treatment. — Isaac

That's them at their least harmful. if and when counselors/therapists have a way to earn the right to prescribe, shrinks and shrinking will shrink away - and little if anything will be lost. Psychiatrists are MDs and maybe they'll find some way to use their basic medical training for good. Caveat: psychiatry not ever to be to be confused with psychology; nor psychoanalysis, a whole entire other species of mumbo-jumbo, apparently, according to some, capable of benefits that can outweigh harm.

Can you provide your thoughts about the specific type of change that would allow those with mental disorders or issues to lead a more fulfilling life? — Wallows

Meaningful work, good social connections, time in nature, enough sleep, the lack of stress created by social media are all things that can eliminate the need for medication (or, really, show that the medical model is confused) in many many cases. A great book on the subject is...

https://www.amazon.com/Lost-Connections-Uncovering-Depression-Unexpected/dp/163286830X

Some of these solutions are within reach for individuals. IOW those not too poor or overburdened. This group can manage, often, to improve their connections that increase a sense of well being, as long as they do not buy into the chemical imbalance model (you got a broken brain, buddy) of depression and anxiety, for example. There are money related and paradigm related reasons why the psychiatric/pharmacological model is so entrenched despite all its philosopical and scientific weaknesses.

Well, there are so many "modern psychologies."
So many, in fact, that I have no idea what might be said by saying stuff about it.
I may as well treat my cut with the piece of bark that my grandfather swore would help.

Can you provide your thoughts about the specific type of change that would allow those with mental disorders or issues to lead a more fulfilling life? — Wallows

1. Schools are little better than Stalinist boot camps and all of them should be abolished immediately. Children neither need nor benefit from a formal education. The stress levels children are put under in schools would qualify as child abuse if the effects on their bodies were caused by an physical agent.

2. The working day should be reduced to a maximum of five hours and probably a three day week as well. Employers who make you sit for long periods or who demand stressful workloads should be prosecuted in the same way they would be if they allowed toxic chemicals into the workplace. Way more people die from sedentary lifestyles and stressful working conditions than all of the well-known workplace toxins put together, and yet we still don't regulate it.

3. A house, garden, fuel and food should never be something the possession of which is linked to a job from which you could be fired. Allotments should be free and available to everyone. I don't object to people having to work to earn their keep, but working with the threat of losing your vital needs if you put a foot wrong is tantamount to criminal harm.

4. Everyone should have easy access to good food and outdoor exercise - excessive unhealthy foods should be regulated no less than tobacco, and sports facilities should be free. It's moronic that we spend billions on curing people once they've got sick and barely anything on preventing them from getting that way in the first place.

5. Local services should be encouraged with significant tax breaks or incentives, you should know the actual human person who provides at least a majority of your services.

6. Social media platforms should be banned and the current CEOs prosecuted (if not shot) as a warning.



Well, after decades of writing sensible, achievable, recommendations, that was really cathartic.

Failing the revolution that would be required to bring those things about, the less crazy version...

1. Formal school education should not start until at least 10. I meant what I said above, there is literally no evidence that children need or benefit from formal education. Any institutions that are required for child care should do nothing more than facilitate a diverse range of free play. Punishments like isolation rooms should definitely be banned immediately and those responsible prosecuted (if not shot), and I mean that one.
2. I think we could achieve a five hour working day (or a three day weekend), these have been seriously considered), as have non-sitting work environments. The link between lack of exercise and mental health problems is strong. Mental health needs can be accommodated in the work environment - quiet rooms for autistic employees, for example, are already in place in a number of tech firms.
3. Maybe just an effective and stress-free welfare system so that losing a job is not as stressful, it's one of the 'big three' triggers of mental health problems.
4. I don't think my original (4) is actually that difficult.
5. As with my original (5), definitely could be done.
6. Prosecuted and shot, maybe? Heads on a pole?

Can you provide your thoughts about the specific type of change that would allow those with mental disorders or issues to lead a more fulfilling life? — Wallows

To the extent that unhappiness would be some kind of mental disorder, I think that you can tremendously increase your happiness by moving outside of the West. Well, it certainly worked like a charm for me. I live in SE Asia now, and I cannot imagine ever moving back. Pick any other society, move there, and you will quickly start feeling better.

You will probably still need to make a living but that is actually easier than it looks like, if you make the preparations needed to achieve that.

Seriously, the simplest solution is to abandon ship. It's not worth it anyway. Furthermore, why lead a shitty life if you could also lead a happy one?

Seriously, the simplest solution is to abandon ship. It's not worth it anyway. Furthermore, why lead a shitty life if you could also lead a happy one? — alcontali

Most people don’t have the financial means to leave the country, let alone their own state (in the US). Then there’s the problem of gaining citizenship. That’s downright impossible for someone diagnosed with a mental illness.

Most people don’t have the financial means to leave the country, let alone their own state (in the US). — Noah Te Stroete

They have the wrong idea on what it would cost because they have never done it.

People who have never visited other countries, other continents, or other cultures are very, very limited, with the worst limitation being their ignorance on exactly these limitations.

I have a German friend here, whose name is Friedrich, and who spends 7 months in Germany as a security guard, making less than $1000/month, saving up, and then spends the other 5 months here in SE Asia. It works fine for him, even though he probably makes less than someone on the Seattle $15/hour minimum wage flipping burgers at McDonalds.

Americans are poor because they have been manipulated into running up all kinds of debt (credit card, student loans, car loans, mortgages, and so on) for stuff they don't need. The rest they spend on biologically worthless processed food. Someone in Vietnam can happily survive on $200/month but not if he started eating all his food out of cans and boxes in order to get spectacularly obese on worthless calories.

Then there’s the problem of gaining citizenship. — Noah Te Stroete

Why would you need citizenship in any Asian country? Just pay a few hundreds of dollars for your yearly visa fee and be done with it. I don't have and don't even want citizenship from a foreign country. What for?

That’s downright impossible for someone diagnosed with a mental illness. — Noah Te Stroete

For a starters, no immigration officer anywhere in the world has never asked me or anybody else at the border for any such diagnose. It is against a gazillion number of different laws and statutes to circulate that kind of information anyway. However, if you start behaving weirdly, and especially violently, they may refuse access to the territory to you or even deport you later on. Hence, the real question is rather: Can you function normally?

If you regularly have schizophrenic episodes in which you lose your mind, then you could possibly be a danger to society, not just in Asia, but also in your own home country. In that case, it is up to your doctor to advise you to move to an (open) institution or so, where they can keep an eye on your episodes. If you are not a danger to others, then you can freely move around in your own country but also abroad.

If you regularly have schizophrenic episodes in which you lose your mind, then you could possibly be a danger to society, not just in Asia, but also in your own home country. In that case, it is up to your doctor to advise you to move to an (open) institution or so, where they can keep an eye on your episodes. If you are not a danger to others, then you can freely move around in your own country but also abroad. — alcontali

I will address this point first. I don’t agree that I have “schizophrenic episodes”, though others disagree.

I am allowed to move freely in my country, and I have no desire to live elsewhere. I’m sticking to my home.

I do have a mortgage with my wife, my wife has a car loan and student loan debt, and we have a few thousand in personal loans. This is just my society’s norm. I’m not complaining. We live nicely, and we will pay them off. Well, maybe my wife will die with her student loan debt, but as of now and for the foreseeable future, she is only paying an income-based repayment. Sucks, sure, but she has job security with good benefits relative to most workplaces.

We eat what we can afford, which isn’t exactly good food. I’m obese, and I have been for most of my adult life mostly due to the antipsychotics I have to take that sap my motivation and drive. Even when I exercised vigorously I didn’t lose weight until one time when I was 26 years old I went off of all meds and lost 60 pounds. Then my psychiatrist threatened to commit me unless I started taking my medications again. Oh well. It doesn’t really bother me much until I get bullied about my weight and lifestyle which happens when I go out in public. I’m obese but otherwise healthy. I had a full blood work up a few months back, and everything came back normal. I don’t have diabetes but have sleep apnea, which also contributes to my energy level.

I am otherwise ignorant on how much it costs to live in SE Asia. I very much doubt I would fit in there. I don’t even fit in in my home country.

For a starters, no immigration officer anywhere in the world has never asked me or anybody else at the border for any such diagnose. — alcontali

Mental Illness a Barrier to U.S. Immigration?
It's not uncommon for immigrants with a mental illness or mental disorder to be deemed "inadmissible", and barred from entry to the U.S.

and there can be testing by doctors involved, see article.
https://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/mental-illness-barrier.html
Canada will give you a medical exam and a questionaire in which you must list all illnesses and current medications.
For residency visas to Japan you must describe medications and psychiatric histories.

As some examples. Countries definitely to ask. It is not illegal, they make these laws, being countries.

We eat what we can afford, which isn’t exactly good food. — Noah Te Stroete

As a general rule of thumb, the more expensive the food, the more it has been processed, and therefore, the unhealthier it is. That is why poor people in SE Asia are so healthy. They simply do not have enough money to eat the bad stuff. Three or four days of the week, I eat their kitchen. Fantastic flavours and super healthy.

Even in the USA, if you buy 50-pound bags of rice, potatoes, carrots, and onions, you have most of the food that you need, and it is healthy. Buy some Mediterranean herbs, olive oil, garlic and butter to cook it with the occasional chunk of fish, meat, and/or bell pepper and you have the healthiest meals in the world. The remainder of the week I eat Mediterranean instead of Asian. It's not the ingredients that are so different but the spicing.

Bread and corn are problematic staples because they tend to be overly processed. That is why I avoid them. Still, once in a while I still eat chestnut sourdough bread with French camembert (cheese). That's a bit more expensive (and processed!) but I only do it once a month or every two months.

It's not uncommon for immigrants with a mental illness or mental disorder to be deemed "inadmissible", and barred from entry to the U.S. Countries definitely to ask.

Still, I do not remember them asking that kind of questions in the USA. the last time I flew to the USA, more than a decade ago, they just stamped my passport with a 3-month leave to stay. No questions asked. This otherwise simple procedure may have changed, of course.

In the last countries I flew into, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Philippines, and Malaysia, they just stamped my passport with the standard duration for visitors (1, 2 or 3 months). I did extend twice in the Philippines at the travel agent, and they didn't ask anything. Just handing over my passport was enough. Same for Vietnam (a visa is needed prior to arrival at the airport). No questions asked there either.

In the free part of the world, visa requirements are relatively simple.

North America, Australia and New Zealand are well known to be exceptions to the standard immigration procedure elsewhere for ordinary visitors. But then again, I am not interested in visiting these places either. These places are not holiday destinations where people go to relax or expect to get lots of value for money. Why would I fly there if I could instead have a good time in, for example, Bali, Indonesia? My condo building looks like a holiday resort, with swimming pool, gym, sauna, and so on, and I pay less for my two-bedroom condo than what people pay for just a room in a shared flat in Seattle.

Seriously, the simplest solution is to abandon ship. It's not worth it anyway. Furthermore, why lead a shitty life if you could also lead a happy one? — alcontali

Funny that you mention that. I'm quite adamant about moving back to my hometown in Poland. I spent a good time over there, and exhausted my options in the US, and since my mental health is deteriorating, I think I might make it a permanent stay or early retirement. :halo:

On second thought, I think, quite honestly, I would have to work there too, ehh. xD

exhausted my options in the US — Wallows

How did you do that?

On second thought, I think, quite honestly, I would have to work there too, ehh. xD — Wallows

Poland seems to have a thriving economy. I wouldn't worry too much about that part.

How did you do that? — alcontali

Just living around here for 10 years, and putting what little energy I had to ultimately futile efforts, such as the military (USAF) and then college. None of them worked out, so I worked for a couple of years, and the last couple of years (2-3) have been on disability.

Life?

Poland seems to have a thriving economy. I wouldn't worry too much about that part. — alcontali

Yes, thinking about teaching English a little, or working in some forestry.

respect your leeway, thought is a great gift. What you really want is someone to take control of you XD, shake you out of a malfunction.

respect your leeway, thought is a great gift. — Qwex

Freedom? I don't entirely understand the significance of this concept for those disabled. Not much I entertain my "freedom", apart from the Friday meal at McDonald's or sumthin simple like that.

he last couple of years (2-3) have been on disability — Wallows

I wonder how many months per year you need to live in the USA so that you can still keep receiving your disability benefits? In fact, the paying government office may not even audit the situation particularly thoroughly. So, maybe if you keep an address in the USA and forward your phone calls, you could possibly spend most of your time in Poland already while still keeping your benefits.

I know people who do that in Europe with their social security retirement benefits. In theory, they have to stay put in the country that pays them, but in practice they still mostly live in the Philippines.

I have been considering that. I'll have to see how and what to the matter.

Dude! There are benefits to being an American!

https://www.disabilitybenefitscenter.org/faq/disability-benefits-living-overseas

Can I Receive Disability Benefits if I am Living Overseas?

Any U.S. citizen that’s otherwise eligible for Social Security Disability (SSD) can receive benefits, even if living overseas. There are however, certain countries the Social Security Administration (SSA) cannot mail benefit checks to, and payments cannot be processed and sent to someone other than you.