I am not "ducking" anything, and you might want to stop mind-reading. — Nobeernolife
Nobeernolife
296
@Frank Apisa:
I can´t help you with your reading comprehension problems, sorry. — Nobeernolife
Pinprick
43
My essential question of what the criteria is for beliefs remains unanswered as best I can tell. If a belief is “to think something is true,” then a belief cannot be “to think something is not true.” The definition of Atheism everyone seems to be pushing is a claim that something is not true (the EOG). Therefore, that claim cannot be a belief. — Pinprick
If a belief is “to think something is true,” then a belief cannot be “to think something is not true.” — Pinprick
Why are atheists like this? Why do they buy into their own bullshit? — Frank Apisa
Here is the matter upon which we need an estimate: What percentage of the people who identify as “atheist” are part of the group who “believe there are no gods” or “believe it is more likely that there are no gods… — Frank Apisa
2k
Here is the matter upon which we need an estimate: What percentage of the people who identify as “atheist” are part of the group who “believe there are no gods” or “believe it is more likely that there are no gods…
— Frank Apisa
I'm 28 percent the former, and 59 percent the latter.
The rest of the missing percentages are due to rounding. — god must be atheist
Okay...so you are close to 100% one or the other. — Frank Apisa
"I think it is true that X is not true." How about that. — god must be atheist
I lack a "belief" in any gods. I also lack a "belief" that there are no gods...
The notion that the reason one uses atheist is because of the lack of belief is almost certainly BULLSHIT. — Frank Apisa
:rofl: :clap:I lack a "belief" in any gods. I also lack a "belief" that there are no gods...
The notion that the reason one uses atheist is because of the lack of belief is almost certainly BULLSHIT.
— Frank Apisa
Did you just assert that your position is firmly planted on BULLSHIT?
You did say (see quote, please) that the lack of belief is almost certainly BULLSHIT,
and you did say that you lack a belief in all possible cases of gods' existence. — god must be atheist
Disbelief that any Gods exist means that you do not possess the belief that any Gods exist. Belief that no Gods exist means you possess the belief that no Gods exist. My claim is that the latter makes no sense because that is an empty belief, because there is no object for that belief to refer to. Therefore, Atheism cannot be defined as belief that no Gods exist. A belief is an affirmation of a statement, not a negation of it. If you negate the statement, then you also negate the belief. Here is my example explained:
X doesn’t have any money. (X doesn’t have a belief in God)
This means X has money is false. (X believes in God is false).
But this doesn’t mean that X has no money. (Doesn’t imply that X believes no Gods exist)
This sentence is nonsensical.
X can’t “have” no money. (X can’t believe no Gods exist)
Rather, X doesn’t have any money. (X lacks belief that any Gods exist). — Pinprick
180 Proof
821
I lack a "belief" in any gods. I also lack a "belief" that there are no gods...
The notion that the reason one uses atheist is because of the lack of belief is almost certainly BULLSHIT.
— Frank Apisa
Did you just assert that your position is firmly planted on BULLSHIT? — 180 Proof
You did say (see quote, please) that the lack of belief is almost certainly BULLSHIT,
TheMadFool
5.1k
↪Frank Apisa
Three possibilities: Theism, Atheism, Agnosticism
1. X thinks god exists = theist (neither atheist nor agnostic)
2. X doesn't think god exists = not theist (either agnostic or atheist)
3. X thinks god doesn't exist = atheist (neither theist nor agnostic)
4. X thinks god may/may not exist = agnostic (not theist and not atheist)
5. X doesn't think god may/may not exist = not agnostic (either theist or atheist)
If X adopts position 1 then he is a theist. If X adopts position 2 (doesn't think god exists) then X is either an agnostic or an atheist and if X adopts position 3 (thinks god doesn't exist) then he's an atheist. The probable reason why I called it out as "word play" is because Pfhorrest lumps both 2 and 3 under the athetist banner when it actually includes agnostics too. — TheMadFool
You mean to say that it doesn't make sense to say something like "I have NOTHING" since NOTHING is, by definition, not anything and so can't be had or possessed.
You're right but where I think you err is in conflating what to me seems like a phraseology "I have nothing" with its meaning. When someone says "I have no money" fae means fae doesn't have money and not that "no money" is "some money" and that fae possesses that amount.
Likewise, when someone believes that "no god exists" it doesn't mean that there exists such a thing as no god. All that that someone means is that god doesn't exist. — TheMadFool
Therefore, they do not actually believe, they just phrase it that way. Right? Also, I don’t think it’s an error to expect people to say what they mean. If “I have nothing” actually means “I don’t have anything,” then that is what should be stated. Likewise for “I believe that no Gods exist” and “I don’t believe any Gods exist.” — Pinprick
My essential question of what the criteria is for beliefs remains unanswered as best I can tell. If a belief is “to think something is true,” then a belief cannot be “to think something is not true.” The definition of Atheism everyone seems to be pushing is a claim that something is not true (the EOG). Therefore, that claim cannot be a belief. — Pinprick
4. X thinks god may/may not exist = agnostic (not theist and not atheist) — TheMadFool
This is a misconception. It is not to think something is TRUE or NOT. It is only to make the claim that something IS. — SonOfAGun
I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that truth is irrelevant to the criteria of belief? To me, saying that something “is” implies that it exists. If you mean something different than that, please explain. — Pinprick
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