If you want to know what's promised, consult those who promise. Or of those who know, those who know - of which there are none. That leaves what reason yields, beyond mere promise. But reason looks at available evidence. What in the way of evidence do you find, and what does it tell you?

Are you saying I should attempt to come into contact with the divine? I’d be open to trying but I’m not sure how to go about it. Also what do you mean by available evidence?

I feel like even within the same religions there is a large discrepancy between peoples views on afterlife and I'd love to hear some thoughts. — TheDarkElf

Views on an afterlife, beyond those of no afterlife, are all lies.

Are you saying I should attempt to come into contact with the divine? I’d be open to trying but I’m not sure how to go about it. Also what do you mean by available evidence? — TheDarkElf

Available evidence means available evidence, noun substantive. Available does not mean not available, and evidence implies availability of some kind, as well as criteria relevant to the question. Find yourself any 19th century photographs of groups of people. Or more easily, 1920s photographs of crowds at big sporting events. What is at least one thing you can say about all the people in the photograph? Now, where are they?

I agree that those people are all dead. Can you prove that their consciousnesses are not still present at some level or at some place? There is no proof that there is no afterlife.

How are you able to be so sure in your opinion? Have you found some proof that shows that there is no afterlife?

Can you prove that their consciousnesses are not still present at some level or at some place? There is no proof that there is no afterlife. — TheDarkElf

Can you prove you are not a magic hippopotamus masquerading as a person? Since when does knowledge come of looking at not-evidence? Are you sure it's knowledge you're looking for?

There is no proof that there is no afterlife. — TheDarkElf

Well, obviously, but this essentially says nothing useful. There's no proof that there is no undiscovered species of mammal in Brazil, and there's equally no proof that there's no 800 pound gorilla in the core of the moon. Nevertheless, the former is fairly reasonable to believe; the latter is ridiculous. If I were to justify a belief that there's an undiscovered species somewhere in Brazil, but my only reason for believing it was that you can't prove it's not true, then I may as well believe in the 800 pound gorilla in the center of the moon.

Likewise, if there's a good reason to believe in the afterlife, then it can't possibly be the same reason to believe there's an 800 pound gorilla in the moon's core.

I wrote a thread on this very subject. There is plenty of evidence of an afterlife.

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/1980/evidence-of-consciousness-surviving-the-body/p1

I see what you’re saying. So for right now the only evidence is that we die and there is no evidence pointing to anything after that. This does discount religions though...?

This makes sense, yeah. This is not taking into account a religious aspect though?

This is a great post, the testimonial idea definitely holds a lot of stock. Are you thinking about them in a specific case or religion?

There is only what it is like to be something. A world that isn't aware of itself at all is equal to a world that doesn't exist.

So long as there is any life after death, there is an afterlife. Who is to say "our" life is by any means coherent as a piece rather than continuous with the whole universe.

No, this isn't about religion. I'm not religious, but I do think there is plenty of testimonial evidence that supports the idea of an afterlife. If you have the time read all of my posts.

How are you able to be so sure in your opinion? Have you found some proof that shows that there is no afterlife? — TheDarkElf

I don't need a proof. There is no evidence beyond warped hearsay.

But believe what you want. If it makes you happy to believe in an afterlife, I have no problem with that.

I don’t believe in an afterlife, I don’t really know what I believe at this point, I’m just asking questions and trying to come to some sort of conclusion. So thanks for sharing your opinions.

Have you found some proof that shows that there is no afterlife? — TheDarkElf

Generally speaking, isn’t this one of the logical entailments of physicalism? But since neither can physicalism as metaphysics be proven with infallible certainty – the fallibilist in me questions if any metaphysics can – my own take is that what occurs subsequent to death is a fundamental unknown. Make peace with this unknown – everything from it possibly resulting in non-being to it resulting in any of the many hypotheses of an afterlife which various cultures have proposed – and the living of life will unfold without this issue of death being any form of problem.

For example, if I live my life virtuously and death results in my non-being, I won’t be bothered by anything subsequent to death, for I will not in any way be – so why not endeavor to cultivate virtue as best as I can while I’m here? There are pleasures to it that cannot be obtained via vice. If, however, I live my life virtuously and (here contemplating a worst case scenario) am placed into some Hell that’s eternally divided from Heaven after death, I will be there on account of having a clear conscious. Consequently, to hell with Heaven, then: I’d only want to be where those who made an effort to have a clear conscious go, future demons though we all are (and to be an angel in such topsy-turvy Heaven would be an absolute nightmare for me). The resulting conclusion: live life more virtually than not and one won’t be bothered by what occurs after death, regardless of what might actually occur.

That said, my own sense of trust has it that it will likely neither be non-being nor a Heaven/Hell divide. But it’s still and unknown to me in terms of what will be. To each their own beliefs.

I like your outlook on this, hopefully I can become comfortable with not being sure what after-death looks like one day. Because an issue with your lifestyle of living more virtuously than not is, what if the hindu religion is in fact true. In that case because you didn't pay proper respects to the proper deities you go to hell (for example) and you could have prevented it and in fact been reincarnated into a better life if you had just said a few prayers or something. Or if the christian worldview is correct, in that case because you didn't accept christ into your heart you don't make it into heaven.

All this to say you have essentially covered all of this with your statements that you would rather be in hell anyway instead of a heaven which you feel like you didn't earn, (is that right?) and that you can be happy with your own efforts to be living virtuously.

All this to say you have essentially covered all of this with your statements that you would rather be in hell anyway instead of a heaven which you feel like you didn't earn, (is that right?) — TheDarkElf

Well, I wouldn't use the term "earned". If some Heaven is filled with brown-nosers who don't give a damn about what is right and what is wrong ... um, they really wouldn't want me there anyway; if it would be eternal (as in no actualization of non-being) I'd likely be causing eternal trouble for them. Besides, I'd much rather be with those that maintained a sense of integrity. So if Hell is filled with those who have, I'd then have earned that which I'd want - in this Cartesian-like hypothetical, to be in Hell. :cool:

and that you can be happy with your own efforts to be living virtuously. — TheDarkElf

That's about it.

fair enough

It will be virus-free, hopefully

Unless it's hell. Hell probably has shit loads of viruses

Ahahaha so true

We know what happens to ourselves after death and have the cadaver farms to prove it. We rot. But we can choose to do so in a dignified manner, for instance through burial or cremation. One can even donate himself to science if he chooses to.

Very true, what do you plan to do after you die?

I’ll leave that to the living.

Fair enough yeah

Very true, what do you plan to do after you die? — TheDarkElf

Surprise me! (as said by Bob Hope on being asked where he would like to be buried.)

:death: :flower:

After life.

Well, there is no 'walking' after legs stop moving.

And no 'symphony' after the orchestra stops playing and disbands.

And not a shred of corroborable evidence of 'minding' (i.e. mental activity, which includes 'self/emotional awareness' 'personal identity via memory-continuity' etc) after the brain (i.e. CNS) irreparably decomposes.

:chin:

Life after - independent of - life?

After all, 'life' is an ecology-nested, processional activity: living - an event, not a thing. So the question of "afterlife" incoherently assumes ... living after? - independent of? - living. :roll:

"After death"?

Death is neither a destination nor a threshold to a 'beyond'. Death is the cessation of living which fundamentally drives the living to postpone dying as long as possible (i.e. at minimum, long enough to reproduce). A candle's flame doesn't go anywhere else when it burns or gets blown out. Having no 'religious beliefs' or 'occult illuminations', I expect to rot and fertilize oblivion.

We're all aware of the subconscious, but for some reason seem to think there's not much we're not aware of. Become aware of more, and you'll have your answers.