• ernestm
    1k
    The Alpha, the Omega, and the Bee Orchid (part one)

    Where are we, and where could a loving creator be, between the birth and death of all vast existence? What of the very first alpha, the very last omega, and the bizarre creations of life scattered around us betwixt the beginning and end? How could all we know now of science ever permit us to consider ourselves more than tiny, insignificant specks of dirt, thrust up from muddy chaos by chance? How could we, a scant two meters in height, be of any personal pertinence to any almighty God, while molecules are pummeled by sparse gamma beams from our sun, a mere 93 million miles away, to forge our individual genetic inadequacies?

    As much as we can imagine, a divine and loving Creator could not possibly consider the dimensions of physical space and time in the same manner as we simple mortals. From all that we have learned via scientific inquiry, that much should be obvious to any person. Around us are vast galaxies, from the one in which we live, to ones so distant that, even with the incredible speed of light, telescope images captured of them are already as they were billions of years ago, by the time their dim photons reach us.

    A ‘big bang’ started it all, 43 billion years ago, science now tells us. Yet even as hydrogen still boils in gigantic balls of heat, sucking in dark matter to spew fused atoms and deadly particles across the immense distances of emptied space, we are told that this same Creator cares for each and every single, tiny, imperfect human being on this far flung planet, somewhere near the rim of a spinning spiral galaxy containing 400 billion stars—and around this galaxy, apparently randomly, countless more galaxies congeal, then perish, sucked into gigantic black holes at galaxies’ centers, where gravity is so intense that time and space collapse into an unknowable dark fury.
    Across billions of years, any divine Creator could not possibly consider our paltry lifespans to have any meaning at all, if such a Being considered time in terms of linear, equidistant ticks of some clock with undefinably small movements of quantum-flicked gears.
    Across galactic space, any divine Creator could not possibly consider space in terms of simple, Euclidean geometry, yet still look with unabated love to our hollow sphere of life, 8,000 miles across and scant miles thick.
    Yet still the debate rages on! Every year, new classes in schoolrooms throughout the world struggle to comprehend how cold scientific laws, gathered with such unquestionable force within the indubious lecture halls of modern knowledge, could ever even coexist at all with the six mere days of Creationism, so awesomely, wondrously sung as Holy truth, throughout far more ancient, doctrine-decked halls of vaulted churches. Is any real reconciliation even possible at all?

    Perhaps a loving Creator would not see time not as we do, in the regulated spirals of days into months and years. Perhaps such a Being, in desire to create not only life, not only free will, but also to enable us to know the transcendentally sublime, perhaps such a Being sees time in terms of eras, or epochs, each of which could be billions of years, or shorter than a microsecond in length--But regardless measured length and count of ticks of clocks, perhaps such a Being sees each irregular epoch, bounded by events significant to his own power, perhaps such a Being sees each corridor of time, as long or as short as it may be, with equal significance.

    Some way the Hebrew word for ‘day,’ as used in Genesis to describe the six days of creation, could also mean ‘epoch.’ If so, such speculators observe, the epochs of Genesis miraculously match the actual evolutionary stages of the universe and life we now learn about in science.

    Similarly, in ancient Greek, there were two Gods of time, and two words to describe time. There is the God CHRONOS, who not only orders time into regular intervals, but permits mere humans to comprehend such measured ticks of his divine clock. This is the most common conception of time. Yet we do also sometimes consider time in terms of eons, and there is also the Greek God EON, who looks upon spans of time that are delimited by major changes of worldly conditions at their beginning and end. The great philosopher Hegel defined the epochs of history in this way, saying sufficient wisdom is not available to understand each era until it is over, in his phrase “The owl of Minerva (the Goddess of wisdom) spreads its wings only at the falling of dusk.” Must time itself end before we can truly comprehend how a loving Creator might be able to see through time?

    Then what of the end? If the beginning of time was measured in epochs, rather than days, then could the apocalypse likewise span some manner of eons here on earth? How could the end of the physical world, as we know it, even be imagined by St. John the Divine in the Revelations? How could he know that cloning, and other scientific techniques, could make everlasting life possible here on earth, as well as in any afterlife that could exist? How would he even be able understand the massive destruction of the modern age, other than seeing steel-sided artillery as angels of metal, and their gunsmoke as incense? When humans blasted the very atoms of matter apart, killing thousands with nuclear explosions after World War 2 was already virtually over, could that be seen as the beginning of the true Apocalypse?

    If the creation lasted billions of years, instead of days, then how long could the Apocalypse, described in mere spans of instants, also be prolonged more than a day? If the epoch of Apocalypse lasts years, ending in a war between those with biologically-enhanced bodies and those without the means to make or buy them, then how many must die, how much suffering, how much more must war destroy our precious hollow shell, 8,000 miles wide and scant miles thick, before we find ourselves together in bodies renewed by science as often as needed, and surrounded by foreseen love of Jesus, forever knowing everlasting joy beyond the eternal, here in the kingdom of heaven in our own world, whatever may be of the afterlife--or not?
  • MathematicalPhysicist
    45
    BTW it's not 43 billion years but 13.8 billion years which I have heard, but if God is eternal then the universe always existed even before the big bang.
  • ztaziz
    91
    I believe that the geniser was from a stronger matter, our time is slower - it is continually asleep in comparison.

    A billion years is a billion years sleeping.

    Perhaps the geniser can hold atoms; whereas atoms for us are chaotic, impossible to hold.
  • ernestm
    1k
    BTW it's not 43 billion years but 13.8 billion years which I have heard, but if God is eternal then the universe always existed even before the big bang.MathematicalPhysicist

    thank you fo rthe correction. Numbers and names dont stick in my mind as well as they used to, and I tend to over-rely on my memory. thank you very much!
  • ernestm
    1k
    A billion years is a billion years sleeping.ztaziz

    yeah!
  • HolyWater
    2
    Well... where should I start? As stated by MathematicalPhysicist, the creator is truly above and beyond time. If I ask, is he infinite, the answer is yes. because the creator in order to create such a universe should be truly unfathomable In his power. If he has a limit, who imposed the limit to his power? If the creator truly was limited, he would very well know the limits to his power and use it to find the truly unlimited personality behind the limit. Btw on to the topic on hand --- the creator has no sense of time. He is omnipotent in all aspects and does not interact directly with this material world. Well how does he interact with the world then you ask? He makes a powerful force with limited omnipotency but enough to cover this one "creation" and interacts through that power. That is the story of the birth of the first god. Why does he do that? Because he knows that some dumb people will say that the creator is conditioned by this material world and to shut them up, he show us that he truly does not interact with this world.

    Don't get me wrong, the creator truly loves us but do we love "him"? he left us in this world full of suffering so that we realize in due time that we are truly sprit souls, part and parcel of the creator and truly finite before the infinite. He want us to pay attention to him. think of him as the only source of true joy. He wants us to endure the suffering and tolerate the joys of life to show our true sincerity to him. So basically he loves us to that extent.
  • MathematicalPhysicist
    45
    It depends on your system of belief.

    I am a Gnostic, so the creator god is the evil god while the unknowable God is the true infinite GOD.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
  • prothero
    429
    The traditional view is God is eternal and stands outside of time. God can view history from the begining (Alpha) to the end (Omega).
    Of course in the traditional view God is also omnipotent (all powerful) and omniscient (all knowing).
    Thus if such a God is all loving then what ever happens is part of the divine plan and ultimately must be for the larger good.
    I have never been able to accept this view of God given all the suffering and pain in the world.
    So my view of God is creative. Gods purpose is creativity, diversity, novelty and intensity of experience.
    The future is open and although God offers possibilities for continuous creative advance to the world there is freedom to reject or accept Gods purposes. I am thus not a traditional deist more of a pantheist.
  • Outlander
    1.8k
    Same as an unloving one you could assume.

    Per doctrine, doubt it's something that could ever be adequately understood.

    Always existed. As far as time and space of the universe goes. Always will. Though, and for reasons I'll explain, one could find themselves not able to so easily write off the possibility of choosing to forget, at least for a time. Eternal conciousness may seem difficult to grasp but force yourself to sit through a day long political commentary and you may find the concept is not so esoteric. :D

    Per doctrine, God experienced regret, satisfaction ('it was good'), anger, and other human emotions. Just some food for thought for those interested or open to the doctrine.
bold
italic
underline
strike
code
quote
ulist
image
url
mention
reveal
youtube
tweet
Add a Comment

Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!

Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.