This being my presumption of why mystics and mystical traditions have often been deemed dangerous heretics or heresies — javra
Nice, I'm envious. I mentioned animals in particular, they have a special significance to me as they are in a sense me without the ego. Or at least there is a glimpse of this in a communion with them. Ref' St francis of Assisi.Yes, nature mysticism.
I think a lot of young sensitive souls hit on this entree to mystical experience. It was my first taste. Especially the deserts of the southwest US; more especially, Monument Valley and Joshua Tree. A perfect mirror-metaphor for the emptiness of the soul.
My preferred - idiosyncratic - notion is 'ecstasy' rather than 'mysticism'; ecstatic practices - what Iris Murdoch calls "unselfings" - rather than mystical, or spiritual, exercises (i.e. union with (some) 'transcendent' (something)); ego-suspending via everyday living (i.e. encounters (à la Buber) - prayer, meditation, or contemplation via e.g. making / performing / experiencing art; free play; intimate sex; compassion-care; etc - and/or hallucinogens) rather than ego-killing via ritualized ascetics (e.g. monasticism, militarism, etc). Not religious, not spiritual, not mystical - but I am (an) ecstatic.
Freddy — 180 Proof
I mentioned animals in particular, they have a special significance to me as they are in a sense me without the ego. Or at least there is a glimpse of this in a communion with them. Ref' St francis of Assisi. — Punshhh
:cool:Not religious, not spiritual, not mystical - but I am (an) ecstatic.
— 180 Proof
This is a welcome circumvention of the corrupted descriptor 'mystical.'
I would only add that certain kinds of mystical practice induce - you might say the obverse of ecstasy - placidity.
My practice is a kind of balancing act: placidity and ecstasy (and of course the hum-drum day-to-day). — ZzzoneiroCosm
A band name or song title? :smirk:Freddy's eternally recurring 'self-overcoming' as the highest form (Sophia-as-Dionysus) of the will to power.
— 180 Proof
Yes: Always back to Freddy and his funny pal Z. — ZzzoneiroCosm
Curiously my wife has this even stronger — Punshhh
Not so much because of one's experiences but a reluctance to add new things to what is being experienced. — Valentinus
We should not take our new experiences for granted. — Valentinus
Oh yeah, this vibes powerfully with my decades-old Gnostic-interpretation of Freddy's eternally recurring 'self-overcoming' as the highest form (Sophia-as-Dionysus) of the will to power. — 180 Proof
The fight of, with, or subjugation of the limited self, resulting in the true self emerging like the pheonix from the ashes. — Punshhh
The past self is absolutely restricted. However, going forward from this point in time, I am free to make my choices and improve upon myself, no matter how desperate my situation is, such that the person I will be in the future will be a product of my own choices, and so I am capable of giving myself a better life simply by making the choices which make me a better person. — Metaphysician Undercover
This process of alignment, orientation has various aspects including some sense of giving up ones freedom. This is something which is offered freely in the knowledge and surety that nothing is lost because what is gained thereafter is that which was feared to be lost along with the added component of being guided by some ineffable power (I am using this phrase only because it follows on from the phraseology I was using earlier). Which is known to be oneself already, but just an area of the self not realised. So as I suggested earlier, it is not a subjugation to a power over, but rather a power with and power over simultaneously, synthesised into a unity. — Punshhh
I want to stress the word orientation, because as I use these ideas in contemplation, I find the concept of changing myself through the fine tuning of my orientation easier to countenance. Firstly because I am not changing myself, but turning something in me, fine tuning a relation. — Punshhh
What are your thoughts about mysticism and what experiences have you had when you’ve honestly and genuinely tried to engage with others who try to espouse their thoughts and ideas about/within ‘mystic’ ... er ... ‘methodology’? — I like sushi
That you consider the claim grandiose is a sign that a dialog on this subject will prove fruitless.
But in case there's fruit to be had: Lying on one's back staring up at the sky can evoke a mystical revelation. As can a fixed gaze at a sunset. — ZzzoneiroCosm
I think you just posted examples of how we imagine what is beyond our little fishbowl of experience. What distinguishes imaginings from reality is the process of falsification.Buddhists see past lives, Christians are one with God, some people see ghost girl... and yeah, cults and religions are built around these experiences. People like Timmothy believe they’ve found the way to free the mind and save humanity or whatever. At the risk of philistinism, it’s all bullshit. An asshole is going to be an asshole after ‘enlightenment’. They might even be an asshole with a more inflated ego, because they’ve experienced selflessness, oddly enough.
I don’t think we can begin to imagine what is beyond our little fishbowl of experience. — praxis
In saying it is mystical, what are you actually saying - that there is knowledge to be obtained, or that there is happiness to be felt, or something else entirely? — Harry Hindu
It seems to me that one can do these things and not have a mystical experience. So, what makes these experiences mystical for one and not another? — Harry Hindu
So instead of addressing the point, you would rather engage in ad hominems. :roll:The conflict between you and I is whether or not things do or do not have multiple dimensions or aspects.
— Harry Hindu
The conflict between you and I is that you will never settle on a middle ground for anything. — Pantagruel
So, if I am so entrenched in my beliefs, then how is it that I did a complete 180 on my beliefs earlier in my life? It is because I began to ask questions that weren't being asked and any answer I received didn't integrate with the rest of what was known or being said.I was socialized in a Christian environment and I was initially a believer in the Christian god, yet as I got older, I began to question the "rationality" of the social order that I developed in. How does one escape their social upbringing and take a up a position that is in direct opposition of the "rational" socialization one was indoctrinated with if they don't possess some inherent, rational, private language with which to do that? — Harry Hindu
Wrong. I am pursuing your narrative and asking questions about it - questions that you should be asking yourself, but you aren't, because you "relentlessly pursue your own very specific narrative without attempting to moderate or adapt your perspective to allow any kind of co-existence with alternative perspectives." - specifically that things have multiple dimensions or aspects.I've read that in others' responses to your posts and seen it in our past discussions. You relentlessly pursue your own very specific narrative without attempting to moderate or adapt your perspective to allow any kind of co-existence with alternative perspectives. — Pantagruel
I don't understand how you could be disagreeing with me if all we ever talk about is our opinions.I'm not confusing anything. I'm well aware of the dimensions of a great many philosophical issues and know where I stand on them. To my knowledge, there is no universal consensus on almost any issue you might care to pick. There are current favourites, but those also evolve. Anything I might say is a summary of what I believe as well as a brief account of the reasons for that belief. I'm always careful to point out what is my opinion, I never claim to have an authoritative answer. — Pantagruel
Which is why I asked how we know that we are talking about the same thing if there isn't a consensus, which you avoided and then attempted an answer that just contradicted another previous statement of yours, which I showed, and so now you respond with hypocrisy and ad hominems.We know that we are talking about the same thing when we achieve consensus. — Pantagruel
It seems to me that one can do these things and not have a mystical experience. So, what makes these experiences mystical for one and not another?
— Harry Hindu
Desire and determination are key. The word 'seeker' comes to mind along with the old phrase 'seek and you shall find.' The obverse reads: do not seek and you shall not find. — ZzzoneiroCosm
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