humans are sufficiently irrational to make such a calculation, but if one is somewhat self-aware, one is liable to notice that doing something in order to feel good about oneself is not the unselfish act that one would feel good about being the author of. — unenlightened
This theory only explains the unselfish acts of the terminally dim. — unenlightened
My positive emotions say 'stick with Epicurus, Spinoza, Zapffe, ... Philippa Foot & Albert Murray'.... my philosophy says that perceiving someone or something as good, bad, beautiful, magnificent, tragic, or horrific is the only good, bad, beautiful, magnificent, tragic, or horrific thing in life. — TranscendedRealms
Knowing that you're acting in such a way as to benefit yourself in the long run is not sufficient to undo decades of neural priming cresting a strong desire to act in such (apparently) noble ways, nor the reward mechanism for having done so. — Isaac
you might feel smug, until you realise how selfish you are and then you feel both selfish and foolish (and cold). — unenlightened
seems perfectly reasonable to suppose that one might rescue damsels from icy lakes because (one imagines) damsels in icy lakes need rescuing, and not be all that concerned whether one is going feel something or nothing. — unenlightened
one can imagine other things than one's own pleasure. — unenlightened
This explains why people can die for their country and stuff. — unenlightened
You might do, yeah. Generally, if you were to repeatedly feel that way you'd probably stop rescuing damsels from icy lakes. If your imagined (predicted) reward never shows up you learn not to repeat that behaviour. Indeed, in societies which do not punish selfishness (in the public sense), we see more selfishness. The key here is that not everyone stops to think how their bravery was ultimately motivated by a desire to feel good, so mostly this doesn't happen. — Isaac
Also, during my miserable struggles, I've had horrible, agonizing, miserable feelings that motivated me to get psychological help. But, suffering like that was no way to live, which means there was nothing good or beautiful about my suffering, even though it motivated me to get help. The fact is, I was having a horrible experience, which means my suffering could only be horrible, regardless of how it motivated me. Even if it motivated me to change the world by discovering cures and inventing new technology, there'd still be nothing positive about my suffering. But, for those people who've been given cures and new technology, that would be a positive experience for them, since they're able to feel positive emotions. — TranscendedRealms
The moment he gains these good feelings is the moment he has goodness in his life again. As you can see, my horrible, miserable struggles can never be good, valuable, or beautiful, even if the end result was the most powerful, amazing bliss for me. I'd just have to bear through those struggles until I gain the bliss. — TranscendedRealms
I have yet to see the least justification, except the endless invention of secret or unconscious motives, and the bald declaration that unselfishness is impossible. — unenlightened
It's a joyless lonely world, and I am glad I don't live there. — unenlightened
Oh, OK. Here you go. — Isaac
Are you suggesting that someone who just jumped into ice cold water to save another person's life mightn't feel at all good about themselves? That they might just do so robotically, because it's the right thing and remain dispassionate in the face the praise they later receive (either from others or from their own self-appraisal)? — Isaac
Our goal in life is to have as much beautiful, good, amazing, awesome, magnificent, valuable, precious, worthwhile, etc. experiences as we can (i.e. to have as much positive experiences as we can). — TranscendedRealms
I am saying, as per the OP, my emotional state probably has nothing to do with risking my life to save another, i.e., I do it because it is the right thing to do. — Sam26
1. A Plausible mechanism — Isaac
2. Some empirical evidence — Isaac
A mechanism for the cultural or biological embedding of such a network - what maintains it through the process of adolescent neural pruning without being in regular use. — Isaac
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.