You're in the Netherlands dude, You get to be about as open about it as possible, (me indicating that you wont like any responses from old bloke around here).

If you're asking whether I have the sense of humor of a 15 year old boy all these decades later, yes, yes I do.

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I'm 73; It took a long time to get to the point where I could be open about sex. I'm pretty open, given the right audience. Your grandmother's birthday might not be the best time and place to discuss your sexual self. On the other hand, you grandmother might like to discuss hers.

When the sex topic is very specific and personal, I tend towards the clinical approach. Clinical talk makes it easier for me than using the vernacular. So, like a lot of gay men, I like to talk about gay sexuality. OLD JOKE: It used to be that homosexuality was the love that dare not speak its name. Now it won't shut up."

Maybe what you're really asking about is intimacy. I dont know what its like in Amsterdam these days, but when I was there in the 80s, there were streets, even multistory buildings, with prostitutes posing in their windows when they didnt have clients. That makes it more of a novelty. and after seeing it once, the next time you walk down the street, its not so appealing, until it actually becomes rather boring on the whole, because its like going to a animal circus or something, after a while you start to notice the smell of poop more than the animals.

Intimacy on the other hand is something shared with someone special to you, and if they care for you, it just gets better, whether there is more or less sex is not even that important, because the intimacy its' the intimacy we're really looking for. At least that's what I think. Someone who has to live on nothing but caviar doesn't really enjoy it, and it's just kind of a habit they got into without ever thinking it was addiction. But when it's a special treat, it can be enjoyed many times, as long as its special, and with someone else who likes it too.

It is the thing we do most besides feeding, sleeping and surviving. — ttjordy

Not for me! That would be a shitty life :)

At 83...no big deal for me at this point.

But back in the day...when I was very active...if it got me laid, I was all for being very open.

If the opposite tactic got me laid...I was for that, instead.

The objective always was: Is it gonna get me laid.

I was never much for lying, though...so if it came to that, I passed. Luckily, I spent lots of time tending bar...and the table was always full enough to push some dishes away, so to speak.

Yes, I am of course talking of intimacy. Thanks for your post. I am indeed in need of sharing such a connection with someone that I can tell anything to.

I may have been a little universal and basic, life is full of other wonders and disasters.

I was wondering what you think is appropriate or perhaps even appreciated to be open about sex, sexual thoughts, fantasies etc. — ttjordy

I think we should be just as open about sex as discussing politics. Opinions do matter; the voices of change can make a difference. After all, isn't the reason why many human's get together is because it's all about Love, sex and procreation? I think Schop and Freud thought so... . Accordingly, Schopenhauer thought that if it were not for sex, men and women would hate each other.

I think we should be just as open about sex as discussing politics. — 3017amen

Politics is public, sex is private (most of the time).

The less private and sacred sex becomes, the less we are reticent to talk about it openly in public. Twenty years ago nobody talked about masturbation at dinner parties. Now people never shut up about it. I'm not sure if that's good or bad or neither. As I'm slightly old-fashioned I think that aside from education and therapy, it seems proper that sex talk is for intimate conversations or whispering behind others' backs.

I've noticed that women can really get into the nitty gritty of it, but around my friends (late 20s-early 30s) we don't really talk about it. Come to think about it, it's been years since I've talked about it with male friends. Especially since a lot of them are married now, it's just not a great conversation topic. When we were in our early 20s it was much more prevalent but nobody cares now that you're having sex with someone or dating someone and it can be a faux pas in some situations. It sometimes seems weird to me when straight men turn the conversation sexual when the crowd is only other men.

tl;dr: it;s not the sex is inappropriate or offensive, it's that the actual social context of carrying on a discussion about sex can be kind of weird.

With all due respect, your comments and advice seem to be part of the problem and not the solution. It's an outdated paradigm. What about being old-school do you believe to be virtuous in this context?

In other words, you seem to be saying "keep those things in the closet; that's good for society". Does that sound intuitive and sophisticated about the expression of human nature/sexuality, or more like worrying about fears over your own truth concerning same?

With all due respect, your comments and advice seem to be part of the problem and not the solution — 3017amen

What's the problem?

In other words, you seem to be saying "keep those things in the closet; that's good for society". — 3017amen

No, I don't think that's implied by what I said. But I don't really know what you mean. You're being too vague. Should we openly explore sexual matters so as to help people achieve satisfying sex lives free of anxiety and difficulty? Yes, that's why I excepted education and therapy. I took the OP to be referring to being open about your own personal sex life, and there I think intimacy is important, because respecting the intimacy of sex, the privacy of your partners, and so on, is important.

I am indeed in need of sharing such a connection with someone that I can tell anything to. — ttjordy

I find that physical intimacy is best with few if any words, and that there are far better subjects to connect emotionally in non-physical intimacy. No one is defined by their sexuality.

I was just fishing for an invitation :(

I'm open about sex with the people I have sex with, and not so open about it with those I don't have sex with.

Who talks the same way about sex with their significant other as they would with their best friend whom they don't have sex with?

Wouldn't your significant other become jealous if they found out that you were sharing the same intimate details about your sexual life with someone else that you aren't sleeping with (yet)?

So unless you and all of your partners are into the same consensual polygamy, you would probably want to limit your unfettered openess to those you are actually engaged in a sexual relationship with.

More often than not sex is unattractive and shameful for anyone but the participants. Therefor it should be a private affair.

Presbyterian in the streets, Joycean in the sheets.

:lol: :up:

More often than not sex is unattractive and shameful for anyone but the participants. — NOS4A2

I get the unattractive part, but shameful?

What's the problem? — jamalrob

Sexual dysfunction from lack of communication (about wants, needs, desires, etc.) in the context of human nature.

Should we openly explore sexual matters so as to help people achieve satisfying sex lives free of anxiety and difficulty? Yes, that's why I excepted education and therapy. — jamalrob

Sure, fair enough. I think that's what is driving much of the OP concern. suggested that he/she desired to have a partner who he/she felt comfortable enough to "tell anything to". That would imply that he/she may or may not have a partner right now, but is nevertheless seeking guidance on how to broach those kinds of subjects/sexual topics with someone. And so the irony is that the person of concern needs a forum in which to express those intimate desires, needs, etc. in the form of open communication about same. What is the medium for such communication?

For example, say an individual is a virgin, but desires to have sex and raise a family. But maybe they are scared, ashamed or embarrassed over the act of procreation/sex, and that they have wild sexual fantasies. Well, what a wonderful thing to have, sexual fantasies, right? The person then has a choice to communicate to a therapist, a forum, friends, ex-lovers, etc. etc. The common theme is the need to express oneself and communicate these normal desires wants and needs.

And so the person who was taught to suppress and repress those naturally wonderful desires and needs for sexual expression, is yearning or reaching out for help until such time that they find their partner that they are really comfortable with. In the interim, they need to talk to someone.

That's sort of a simple scenario, but it's usually much more complicated. Sexual dysfunction is the cause of many, many, disaster's just waiting to happen, viz relationships. Many of which stem from childhood or otherwise old worn-out outdated paradigms associated with not talking freely about sex.

You might not agree that completely 'open discussion' is a healthy approach. And I might not a agree that limiting the sexual discussion to a therapist is the only way or method (or if parents are unwilling to discuss same). We need to celebrate this wonderful gift that we give to each other. What's the means to that end?

I get the unattractive part, but shameful?

Perhaps some people are proud when they get caught in a sex act or must speak of their sex life in any detail, but I wager the common response is shame and embarrassment.

It’s a shame that such repression is common.

How shall we tell of 'ecstasies' beyond telling?

Thank you for your questions. I am glad you joined with us. Please let me know if there is any way I can be of assistance to you. I, too, am new here.

Your excellent questions regarding sex and its various vicissitudes led me to the following questions:

1. What is the the foremost moral end and aim of my life?
2. How do my discussions of sex relate to that end and aim?
3. Do I have an accurate awareness of my motivations in such discussions?
4. In each different situation, are my remarks timely and appropriate?
5. In every situation and with every interlocutor, are my remarks kind?
6. Do my remarks put other's needs and capabilities first?
7. Is there a tendency towards aggressiveness in my discussion of sex, perhaps with some but not with others?
8. Are there any habitual patterns and inveterate tendencies that obscure my clarity in regard to any of these several questions?

And then, I came to think that Rilke might be able to shed some light on these questions:

O that man might take this secret, of which the world is full even to its littlest things, more humbly to himself and bear it, endure it, more seriously and feel how terribly difficult it is, instead of taking it lightly. That he might be more reverent toward his fruitfulness, which is but one, whether it seems mental or physical, is of one nature with it and only like a gentler, more ecstatic and more everlasting repetition of physical delight. - In one creative thought a thousand forgotten nights of love revive, filling it with sublimity and exaltation. And those who come together in the night and are entwined in rocking delight do an earnest work and gather sweetnesses, gather depth and strength for the song of some coming poet who will arise to speak of ecstasies beyond telling. http://www.floozy.com/allison/rilke/rilke4.html

How shall we tell of 'ecstasies' beyond telling?

Sex is an interesting thing. When I was married, it was frequent and normal I suppose, and then I got divorced and all of a sudden I was thrown back in the mix. It seems very much easier to find partners and partners are much more willing at this age (late 40s, early 50s). You get to the point where it feels like a waste of time if it's not going to go anywhere. It's just not worth the effort of all that's involved for it to culminate into a few days (or even weeks or months) of fun just to move on to the next one. It's not that I feel dirty, immoral, or anything like that. It's just kind of stupid. At first, it was like "wow, this is what rock stars must be doing," but I suppose they are much younger and it matters more to them and it's part of a lifestyle that doesn't appeal to me.

But I'm not at all hesitant to talk about it, and I'll confess to having done things only so that I could tell my friends my crazy exploits later. Not terribly mature I guess, but we're having an open talk here.

Sexuality is really just part of life, and I do think it's silly not to be able to talk about it. I will admit though that those times I've been with someone I cared about, I saved the details for myself. It seemed disloyal to do otherwise.

l

Perhaps some people are proud when they get caught in a sex act or must speak of their sex life in any detail, but I wager the common response is shame and embarrassment. — NOS4A2

Maybe just my circle of friends, but embarrassment doesn't usually attach to sexual conduct, but more so to lack of sexual partners and the suggestion that because you can't find a partner, you're somehow deficient. I don't believe that at all, but recognize that is entirely a product of lack of very specific social skills and perhaps timidness. Self worth is often too associated with how one fares with the opposite sex and that only exasperates the problem because lack of self confidence is what paves the road to that lack of success.

I think boasting of one's exploits is a way to show your confidence, even though it may be lacking. I also think finding more and more partners is a way to prove to yourself your own worth, which, of course speaks to lack of confidence. Maybe I do that sometimes. I do try to be sensitive when speaking among friends about various exploits or whatever, in realizing it makes some uncomfortable due to the sensitivity of it and others due just to their lack of such experiences.

But there's no mystery here. It's all about finding just one person to share your sexual experiences with and discussing them (or not). If you have that, it seems pretty insignificant whether you are open or closed in your discussions about sexuality to the general public.

Well I can share my own experience, which actually has worked out fine for me in the end. I'm 60, and Ive had alot of problems with greed, vanity, and in fact also, promsicuity, even with my wife, for which reason we are divorced. But I do take marriage vows seriously, so she may have she left me for a man with more money, but I shall not marry again. Before I married someone I'd dormed with at Oxford, I dated a girl who was half Japanese and half Mexican, who had already had a child, and my problem was, she made all the decisions for the child, so I never felt I was really part of her family.

After divorce I was really confused what to do, and as I had been in a Buddhist monastery for a while after leaving Oxford, I asked a Tibetan monk what to do. He said welcome to Thailand. Well it took me a while to figure out, lol, but now I have a very beautiful and amazingly intelligent Thai girlfriend. Currently she is saving money for university, and with my help she plans to start in the fall. Im very happy with her and could ask for nothing more. I feel like I am the luckiest man alive sometimes )

I should caution you, there are girls not so good in Bangkok, but some richer ones who are very nice but you'd really have to go to Thailand to meet them yourself before they'd want to date you at all. They dont have the silly thing about older people being stupid that seems so predominant in this country. The rural girls are fantastic, its almost unbelievable such people still exist in the modern world. They dont speak English as well as you might expect, but before judging it, its worth trying to understand how they think, because being Buddhist they are not prone to long dialogs in the first place. In general, they are not greedy, they are not vain at all, and they are perfectly open to considering whatever kind of exclusive relationship or not you want. As my girlfriend is much younger than me, and would need to marry again when I die, I encourage her to have a boyfriend her own age too, so she can marry him and have babies, by which time I will be too old to want sex anyway. So it took a while to figure out, but now I am very happy, and if you want to talk with some thai girls, there is a board call thaifriendly where you can find out what they are like )

Interesting discussion I have opened up here. I can admit that I sometimes make inapprioprate sexual remarks to a girlfriend of mine (just friendship). Other times I really have an open discussion about intimacy, sex and even sexual fantasies. There have even been girls that were sending me the porn videos they were currently getting off to. But it's all good fun I know. But the intimate talks we have can sometimes cause us to engage in that specific kind of intimacy or fantasy. Or we spike interests in intimate, sexual matters that we had not thought of that way. So in that way is was beneficial to discuss this with friends. The other 50 percent find it repulsive and think me weird for having different opinions and simply express them, even though they are somewhat uncommon. It's no rape, murder or pedophilia fantasies or anything. It doesn't hurt anyone.

That's what confuses me. Should I just be myself and utter the words and have a chance at a stronger bond(hehe possibly getting laid) or should I follow most others and shut my mouth that aren't really honest and open about it. I found a way to deal with it. Feel the ambience, try a few jokes, if people around me are not expressive and shutout and not open about other things, the chance is high they won't care for my sexual fantasies.

I should add, I don't spontaneously tell my fantasies. But when a friend says: 'uh that's disgusting and sick when people have that fantasy/fetish. ' I reply: 'I actually find it hot and enjoyable.'

Also intimacy is not equivalent to sex for me. I usually don't even connect the two. I can be very intimate with a girl and have meant that we were close and sharing personal vulnerable stuff and have a safe and trusting atmosphere.