Well you're all worked up!Fear works, antagonism works, discord is wildly productive. — StreetlightX
Why is hypothetical unsourced harm more important to you than real harm done on a daily basis? Why does it weigh heavier in your considerations regarding the protests than the lived reality?
By the same token, you can think of all the hypothetical instances of police brutality agitating against police brutality and for police reform would do.
If you're asking me about real riots which ended up destroying real black-owned businesses then that harm has been very much documented. That harm is very much real and will likely persist for years to come. — BitconnectCarlos
I think that this is the reason just why nothing dramatic that would change the underlying reasons will happen.If you're asking me about real riots which ended up destroying real black-owned businesses then that harm has been very much documented. That harm is very much real and will likely persist for years to come. — BitconnectCarlos
So I guess soon burning the US Flag will be an act of protest against systemic racism and then flying the US flag will become a microaggression and racist. — ssu
Perhaps more organized force is required for enduring change on the level rightly desired by the movement. — fdrake
At least I have said that the response from the right should be noticed. Fox News is in full swing of the culture war, that's their shtick. The rigth-wing extremists do have their proven tactics: lone gunmen actors who buy that self loading rifle etc. When they don't be members of some movement, there's no movement to be put on the FBI terrorist list.There already have been people killed in the protests - almost all of them by police and by white supremacists. But the fucktards blubbering about 'violence' are silent as a fucking grave about it. — StreetlightX
Getting back to the example of the Jews, why shouldn't they have rioted? I think your position is extreme here. Their very existence was under threat. I would say their scope for justified counter-action was wide open. For me, based on a straightforward utilitarian and consequentialist position, pretty much everything was permissible for the Jews if, of course, it would have contributed to their safety as individuals and as a people. So, strategy aside, on what ethical basis, if any, are you objecting here? Why is it wrong? You have a dominant party aimed at destroying an oppressed minority. If anything they have an obligation to do everything possible to defend themselves, right? — Baden
Just saying that countries can always disappoint you. — ssu
So you think Americans will be divided by the use of flag? Putting the flag up on your home is a sign that one accepts systemic racism?American symbols like the flag or anthem don't have a sacred right to survive in perpetuity. They either represent Americans as a whole or they don't. And that's up to Americans and the various communities among them to decide. — Baden
And the oodles of evidence for systemic racism?
Nobody will say: "Ok, we got the reforms we wanted." Nobody will be happy about the majority of people being against police brutality. Nope, it will go to a level of stupidity where some will see everywhere traces of systemic racism and will attack this systemic racism. So I guess soon burning the US Flag will be an act of protest against systemic racism and then flying the US flag will become a microaggression and racist. — ssu
Oh that's how you see it? Did I say that? You genuinely think that?If you think burning a shitty piece of fabric is more important than the deaths of black people then you're well and truly fucked — StreetlightX
Watch out that you don't get banned.I said this earlier with Baden: Even Jews in 1935-1936 wouldn't have been justified in destroying local German businesses (ones unconnected with Nazism) because even in war there are valid and invalid targets. — BitconnectCarlos
Watch out that you don't get banned. — ssu
Humanity is something we can easily forget. We adapt perhaps too easily to things we shouldn't.I can see this being the case. Honestly, my point was that even if the rioters concerns are valid - and I have no problem with body cameras or better training for police or independent commissions going over police reports - there are appropriate and inappropriate ways to go about trying to achieve reforms. Even if the rioters consider this a war there are still valid and invalid targets in war. — BitconnectCarlos
Perhaps more organized force is required for enduring change on the level rightly desired by the movement. — fdrake
It is possible to radicalize your position as not sufficiently left.How many years of merely symbolic protest must be endured? All it creates is minor collateral damage, leaving the conscience of every oppressor fundamentally unswayed. — fdrake
That was a bad joke from me. They won't ban you. I trust in these guys.I'd like to see them ban me for that I'm Ashkenazi Jewish with family killed in the Holocaust. — BitconnectCarlos
I said this earlier with Baden: Even Jews in 1935-1936 wouldn't have been justified in destroying local German businesses (ones unconnected with Nazism) because even in war there are valid and invalid targets. — BitconnectCarlos
Presumably, since you'd blame yourself if you destroyed and looted a local business then we can draw the conclusion that the rioters are also at fault. — BitconnectCarlos
So you think Americans will be divided by the use of flag? — ssu
I'm Ashkenazi Jewish with family killed in the Holocaust. — BitconnectCarlos
And in 1939, 1942 or 1944? When exactly was it justified for them to attack the society murdering them with impunity? — Benkei
I know you said you're Jewish, but even if you weren't I think I would see the general point of principle even though I thoroughly disagree with it. — Baden
If it's the entire society you should have no problem carpet bombing German cities which had no connection to the war effort. — BitconnectCarlos
I don't accept that targets like property or even civilians are absolutely out-of-bounds in a conflict situation — Baden
If that would have stopped the holocaust, I would have been all for it. Done purely for punitive reasons, no. — Baden
So yes, terrorist acts by Jews causing mass casualties among citizens who do nothing as their fellow countrymen are slaughtered would've been totally justified by the time they started the concentration camps. — Benkei
I'm sure we agree on the egregious nature of racism, but if we don't agree on standard terms, we're just going to end up talking past each other. I can't force you to use the term in the standard sense, but it's going to be a mess of confusion otherwise. Your call. — Baden
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