Is eternal damnation a thing? Any references?

https://www.christianity.com/wiki/heaven-and-hell/why-is-hell-eternal.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CjSy9CWEeU

In fairness to God, He never came up with eternal damnation thing for sinners; it's a punishment limited to the diabolical trinity of Satan, the Anti-Christ, and the false prophet. Mortal sins are punished by the final destruction of body and soul; this is called the second death.

I asked a Catholic friend of mine why the church preaches one thing when the Bible says another. She referred to some theological jiggery pokery whilst maintaining that the truth is clear in the Bible, as shown by said small library of theological texts to prove that it's clear.

I have a vague idea on the matter. Here's why suffering in Hell is eternal:

Before god revealed himself through his prophets, no one knew good from evil; In this innocence there's the seed of redemption - god might even excuse horrific crimes for the simple reason that you didn't know the ins and outs of morality.

However, the situation after revelation is different. You know good and evil and that immediately voids the innocence defense. Also, consider the legal principle Ignorantia juris non excusat (ignorance of the law is not an excuse). If humans feel that way - that ignorance of the law is not a reasonable defense against crime - then there's no reason why god should have a different opinion.

Hence, being immoral in spite of god's moral teachings is to completely disregard "lighter" forms of punishment that takes into account innocence. What else does a person who's immoral post-god deserve but the harshest of punishment? Eternal damnation?

Hence, being immoral in spite of god's moral teachings is to completely disregard "lighter" forms of punishment that takes into account innocence. What else does a person who's immoral post-god deserve but the harshest of punishment? Eternal damnation? — TheMadFool

I'm super evil and I'm even gonna disregard eternal damnation. Not even eternal damnation can stop my evil! :naughty:

I'm super evil and I'm even gonna disregard eternal damnation. Not even eternal damnation can stop my evil! :naughty: — Wheatley

You're much better than most people, people who are kept on the straight and narrow only because of fear.

That said, try not to be evil.

You're much better than most people, people who are kept on the straight and narrow only because of fear. — TheMadFool

I'm also humble.

That said, try not to be evil. — TheMadFool

I'll try, but evil feels so good! :death:

Man this OP took forever to read. :)

There are more ways things can go wrong than right. Luck is never on our side. :sad:

Luck is never on your side.

Therefore, no bad deed (sin) should require eternal punishment (because no sin can cause eternal damage). — Wheatley

Doesn’t the idea of “original sin” contradict this? Eve’s sin eternally damaged the world.

Doesn’t the idea of “original sin” contradict this? Eve’s sin eternally damaged the world. — Pinprick

Is the world eternal?

Maybe, if you’re a Christian. God already “destroyed” the world once with the flood. Yet, here we are.

Well, imagine a situation where the state represents the will of God and delivers punishment for those who transgress divine law.

Eternal damnation might take the form of life sentence and torture until death (the end of eternity).

See South Korea.

Okay, perhaps the earth stays forever. Even if Eve caused eternal damage by eating a apple, I don't think any christian would say that Eve is spending an eternity in hell.

This question is for Christians: Can you name a sin that would cause eternal damage warranting an eternity in hell?

Even if Eve caused eternal damage by eating a apple, I don't think any christian would say that Eve is spending an eternity in hell. — Wheatley

From my memory of Genesis, it doesn’t mention Eve repenting, or not repenting, so no one could know her afterlife one way or the other. However, I would be more willing to agree that you can probably find a Christian that will agree with just about anything. :razz:

I think "pain = punishment" only applies temporarily and perhaps not at all. There are some people who have their minds wired or trained to perceive pain as enjoyable or pleasureful or desirable. Think masochism/ self- harm/ bdsm etc. Or those who have mastered meditation techniques who endure suffering neutrally, with indifference or just have strong resilience.

Secondly what is painful to one may not be painful to another both in terms of physical pain tolerance/threshold as well as the quality of psychological torture which would induce mental anguish/suffering or pain.

Pain tolerance can be achieved after a time by simply being overwhelmed by the stimulus to the point where you pass out or endorphins flood your nervous system and impede any further insult to the brains processing.

Plus, regarding documented physical tortures we have learned that people can reach a fugue state of vacancy whereby they have dis-accociated completely with their body, have no fear of death and simply become un-receptive to any degree of further torture up to and beyond the point of death of the body. At this stage the torturer can no longer increase the degree of suffering to the individual.

Based on these I think it's very hard to suffer an eternity of suffering. Especially if you have suffered so long that you have lost all experience, memory or recollection of what it feels like not to suffer. Without contrast to pain I would imagine the brain would find a way to adapt.

I believe what is meant by "sin" resulting in damnation or hellish conditions applies to life rather than death, sort of karmic sense. He who does bad unto others will likely have bad done onto him. In essence you can create your own hell through your behaviour. If allow myself to have a cynical, pessimistic, depressed or vindictive mental state - at war with the world, I will perceive only a world of mistrust, hate, fear and suffering through this shadowy veil I cast over my reality.

This question is for Christians: Can you name a sin that would cause eternal damage warranting an eternity in hell? — Wheatley

I'm not really christian but perhaps in a metaphorical sense the sin that would cause eternal damage is creation itself. Creation in the sense that with construction/ordering/building of systems of negative entropy such as life comes the antagonist - destruction/chaos/disordering of said system. With the ability to generate an awareness that can perceive existence as good there must also be the opposite. Otherwise existence is always neutral.

If you cannot suffer when you dont exist in an state of awareness then to live is risky business. You could be instead in a state of total neutrality where there would be no virtue or sin, no pleasure nor displeasure

There are more ways things can go wrong than right. Luck is never on our side. :sad:
1hReplyShare — TheMadFool

That depends of perspective. A failure is still valuable information for learning or approaching a state of control where luck or probability has less impact and is more directed. You could not identify that specific thing which is right if you did not have a knowledge of that which is not right.

In the statement there are more things that "arent" than things that "are" for any state, definition or any quality... it really depends on perspective. .

For example if I hold the concept "dog" in mind then yes there are certainly more things that "arent" this then those that "are" but perhaps if I consider "universe" instead then the opposite is true. Just as with "wrong" and "right"... according to whom? Or what goal? Or what state?

Eternal damnation is just one of the pieces that goes into the construction of the Christian scheme to draw in and keep paying members to its various organizations.

The Scheme:

1. Tell people there is an unseen, loving, benevolent, all powerful being (god) who will look after them, help them when asked to, and even protect them when such protection goes unrecognized.

2. Tell them this can all be achieved in part by praising him, promising your fidelity to him, and loving him.

3. Tell them that if they have lived led a life that pleases this god, and meets one additional requirement, he will see to it that after they die they will spend the rest of their "life" in a paradise (heaven).

4. Tell them that to accomplish this they will have to become members of your organization, support it with time and money, and adhere to all its beliefs and requirements.

5. Make sure they understand that your organization, and no other, possesses the true means of accomplishing all of the above.

6. Then tell them about the additional requirement. Tell them they must accept god's only son, Jesus, as their savior from what god will do to them if they don't meet the requirements as laid out by your organization.

7. Tell them that if they don't meet these requirements god will not send them to heaven after they die, but instead send them to hell, a place of fire and brimstone where they will suffer in anguish for all ETERNITY. A payback sometimes called Eternal Damnation.

8. Tell them that when they come meetings to hear more about the goodness of their new found god and his threat of eternal damnation they may leave their offerings to their adopted religious organization in the form of cash, check, or credit/debit card.

the idea of eternal damnation as a punishment is unfair. — Wheatley

Only to a fair god and morally-minded people.

Conclusion: Either God is fair and merciful, or he sends people hell eternally. — Wheatley

Why can't god be an immoral slave owner (the god of Abraham does condone slavery) who delights in infecting children with bone cancer? After all, as an omniscient and omnipotent being the god of Abraham certainly has the power to foresee such an affliction and prevent it.

Only to a fair god and morally-minded people. — Lida Rose

God is not fair get used to it!

Why can't god be an immoral slave owner (the god of Abraham does condone slavery) who delights in infecting children with bone cancer? After all, as an omniscient and omnipotent being the god of Abraham certainly has the power to foresee such an affliction and prevent it. — Lida Rose

Clearly God believes pain and misery is extremely beneficial to mankind.

Eternal damnation is just one of the pieces that goes into the construction of the Christian scheme to draw in and keep paying members to its various organizations. — Lida Rose

I'd actually be fine with that. What horrifies me is that it's much worse: it's designed to teach impressionable children and the adults they grow into to never, ever question the beliefs of their parents or their church; to accept any sanctioned dubious idea no matter how impossible to absorb; to reject any contrary idea no matter how compelling or self-evident or beneficial or interesting.

Clearly God believes pain and misery is extremely beneficial to mankind. — Wheatley

Then obviously Heaven is Hell and Hell is Heaven.

Not at all. Pain and misery in this world is just a sample of what goes on in hell. God wants us to know what hell feels like in this world so we don't sin, and up in actual hell, which is unimaginably horrible and painful. Isn't God merciful? He gives us the gift of knowing what hell feels like, so smart people will make decision not to sin. Its people who are unable to make rational decisions that have to worry, but most of us dont care about them (pfff, losers...).

That's because it's all according to expectation. Why set your standards really high in such a chaotic universe?

It's say in the Bible, blasphemy against God is the only sin that's never forgiven.

Lida Rose
Not at all. Pain and misery in this world is just a sample of what goes on in hell. — Wheatley

No doubt not even close to Hell, but okay.

God wants us to know what hell feels like in this world so we don't sin, and up in actual hell, which is unimaginably horrible and painful. Isn't God merciful? — Wheatley

As long as you've asked, considering that he inflicts pain and misery to some degree or another on everyone, including those who have no idea there's a Get-Out-Of-Hell card that can be played, No, he isn't merciful at all, but rather comes across as a divine masochist who doesn't give a **** about anyone other than those fortunate to be let into his game. Everyone else be damned, as it were.

He gives us the gift of knowing what hell feels like, so smart people will make decision not to sin. Its people who are unable to make rational decisions that have to worry, but most of us dont care about them (pfff, losers...). — Wheatley

And ain't that nice. All those who, through no choice of their own, happened to have been created dumb or unable to make rational decisions please line up at gates 6 through 666 for the next train to Hell. The ignorant may board at gates 667 through 6,666.