The four pillars of humanity.

Brett

For my own interests, in an effort to try and put modern times into perspective, to put together some framework for looking at things, I’ve tried to break humanity up into manageable sections, to then see where they might crossover, how they’re influenced, or to see if I missed something, or if my four pillars are an accurate way to break it up.
For instance, are they clearly different from each other, and could poetry be behind religion? I’ve also tried to avoid confusing the thing with what it produces.
Each of these pillars produce something. What they are and what they produce are two different thing. What they produce is the evidence of their presence.

I’m interested in what anyone might have to add, change or clarify.

Poetry: the expression of human consciousness and the unconscious. Art is a product of this.

Politics: ideas of nationalism. Division. Ideas of opposition. Power, the rule of law and society are products of this.

Economics: value in things, profit and loss. Power and private property are the products of this.

Religion: metaphysics, belief, the unknown, the unsayable. The church, the priests and power are the products of this.

Gmak

The Four Pillars of Humanity sound good for something like a base in education or culture.

180 Proof

Sort of brings to mind Badiou's four generic truth-procedures: Science, Art Politics, & Love. (Or more obscurantly, Heidegger's fourfold-unity (or "gathering") of Earth, Sky, Mortals & Divinities.) What are you trying to get at with your "Pillars", @Brett?

Brett

↪180 Proof

I was thinking about how humanity seems to keep on behaving in the same way throughout history. So I wanted to try and prioritise those things that drive us that way. And if those four pillars, as I call them, are the basic superstructure to our lives.

For instance it seems to me that society is politics, it’s the DNA of society. Which means we’re political animals, which is a bit different from social animals. If that’s true then the way we manage things and deal with them will never change. So I need to know exactly what political means.

And if economics comes after politics, is it the result of politics? So is my prioritising reasonable and are the four pillars correctly identified?

Edit: politics is regarded as something we do, but I’m suggesting it’s something we are.

Banno

↪Brett

Looks inherently conservative.

It divides politics from economics, as if politics did not involve values.

Where's science?

And why include religion at all?

Outlander

Wouldn't poetry be a product of Creativity? Also, Pillars of Humanity as in generally not found elsewhere or?

Brett

↪Banno

My feeling behind this OP is that politics is not about values. It’s originally a state of being, of viewing the world around one in terms of personal boundaries, what one has and doesn’t have, who has things and what they are, what’s happening around one and will they be affected by it and how to get what they want.

It’s a primitive state of being.

Politics became a ritualised game of rules played by professionals, like football is a ritualised game of war or battles.

Democracy let people back in through the vote.

Science is further down the track and developed from one of those pillars, or two, or a mutation. Religion is there because it’s an essential part of us. Whether God or Gods are real doesn’t matter, people have embraced it since they didn’t understand what the wind was, or why the sun rose every morning.

Economics and politics are separate. Economics was a way of playing out politics.

Brett

↪Outlander

Poetry’s just my word for the expression of the unconscious mind, creativity is the result.

Banno

↪Brett

Yeah. It's pretty arbitrary. I don't find it at all compelling.

Wheatley

I’ve tried to break humanity up into manageable sections, to then see where they might crossover, how they’re influenced, or to see if I missed something, or if my four pillars are an accurate way to break it up. — Brett

Poetry — Brett

Politics — Brett

Economics — Brett

Religion — Brett

~~It seems like are missing the practical side to humanity. There's also markets, economy, institutions, businesses, etc...~~

Isn't there also an intellectual side to humanity? Schools, universities, intellectuals, and ideas. It seems like they play a crucial part to humanity.

Brett

↪Wheatley

No, it’s not about what we are now, it’s about our basic origins, what drives us and what feeds into other things. For instance politics comes before a community/tribe was formed. Economics is about trading. But at what point does trading appear, before a tribe is formed or after. And is economics just politics in action?

And what’s behind institutions, markets, business? They didn’t spring up overnight fully formed.

Wheatley

For instance politics comes before a community/tribe was formed. — Brett

'Politics' originates from ancient Greece if I am not mistaken. You are thinking of tribal conflict.

Economics is about trading. — Brett

Economics is a social science; modern terminology.

But at what point does trading appear, before a tribe is formed or after. — Brett

I say trading relates more to geography than individual tribes. Things get traded from places to places.

And is economics just politics in action? — Brett

'Economics' is simply the study of economy. Are you thinking of markets?

And what’s behind institutions, markets, business? They didn’t spring up overnight fully formed. — Brett

They can. Well, not fully formed, no. More like an organic process.

Brett

↪Wheatley

You are thinking of tribal conflict. — Wheatley

Tribes come before Greek culture.

Economics is a social science; modern terminology. — Wheatley

It’s origins are in trading on an individual basis for necessities.

I say trading relates more to geography than individual tribes. Things get traded from places to places. — Wheatley

Based on what I just said I think that trading begins at an individual level.

'Economics' is simply the study of economy. — Wheatley

I don’t think studying something is the thing. The thing has to first exist.

They can. Well, not fully formed, no. More like an organic process. — Wheatley

Yes, so something initiated institutions, markets or business. Economics is behind business and markets, politics behind institutions.

Wheatley

Tribes come before Greek culture. — Brett

Exactly! Problem is, no all humanity has adopted Greek culture! Is your mind blow?

It’s origins are in trading on an individual basis for necessities. — Brett

Yes. I would say 'trade' is a way more appropriate term for a pillar of humanity than economy.

Based on what I just said I think that trading begins at an individual level. — Brett

What did you say specifically?

I don’t think studying something is the thing. The thing has to first exist. — Brett

'Economy' is an abstract term (and a social construction) invented by economists! *attempting to blow your mind*

Yes, so something initiated institutions, markets or business. Economics is behind business and markets, politics behind institutions. — Brett

Individuals start businesses. Governments and institutions are part of the 'ecosystem' in which business thrive.

Brett

↪Wheatley

Tribes come before Greek culture.
— Brett
Exactly! Problem is, no all humanity has adopted Greek culture! Is your mind blow? — Wheatley

What I meant was that people existed as tribes or collective long before the development of Greek cultures. So in the sense I’m talking about politics, which is not related to the Greek meaning, which refers to politics as a game of rules, I mean that it existed far earlier than Greek culture. All they did was begin the ritualisation/institutionalising of it and give it a name.

Banno

Cistercian’s far earlier than Greek culture — Brett

??

Wheatley

So in the sense I’m talking about politics, which is not related to the Greek meaning, which refers to politics as a game of rules, — Brett

You can't divorce the word 'politic' from its original Greek meaning because politics is a Greek word. You're setting yourself up to confuse everyone.

The English word "politics" derives from the Greek word politiká (Πολιτικά, 'affairs of the cities'), the name of Aristotle's classic work, Politiká. In the mid-15th century, Aristotle's composition would be rendered in Early Modern English as "Polettiques",[a][10] which would become "Politics" in Modern English.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics

I mean that it far earlier than Greek culture. All they did was begin the ritualisation/institutionalising of it and give it a name. — Brett

I'm not sure what you are trying to convey to me.

↪Banno

Definition of Cistercians: a monk or nun of an order founded in 1098 as a stricter branch of the Benedictines. The monks are now divided into two observances, the strict observance, whose adherents are known popularly as Trappists, and the common observance, which has certain relaxations.

Brett

↪Banno

Auto-correct. Should have been ‘existence’ which I corrected.

Edit: and that should have been ‘existed’.

Brett

↪Wheatley

You can't divorce the word 'politic' from its original Greek meaning because politics is a Greek word. — Wheatley

I’m using politics as a form of interaction between people. “The affairs of the city” are the affairs of the people. First the people then the institutions.

Banno

Definition of Cistercians: a monk or nun of an order founded in 1098 as a stricter branch of the Benedictines. The monks are now divided into two observances, the strict observance, whose adherents are known popularly as Trappists, and the common observance, which has certain relaxations. — Wheatley

I just wasn't aware they predated the Greeks. But seems they didn't.

Banno

Science is further down the track and developed from one of those pillars, or two, or a mutation. Religion is there because it’s an essential part of us. Whether God or Gods are real doesn’t matter, people have embraced it since they didn’t understand what the wind was, or why the sun rose every morning. — Brett

That's just wrong.

Brett

↪Banno

That's just wrong. — Banno

How so?

Wheatley

I’m using politics as a form of interaction between people. “The affairs of the city” are the affairs of the people. First the people then the institutions. — Brett

This is very typical of philosophers. Use an ordinary word, and then proceed to strip it of all its connotations. :vomit:

Don't mind me, I just don't like philosophers. :victory:

Wheatley

I just wasn't aware they predated the Greeks. But seems they didn't. — Banno

I never even heard of that word before.

Brett

↪Wheatley

Use an ordinary word, and then proceed to strip it of all its connotations. — Wheatley

If the Greeks had not named it do you think it would still exist.

Wheatley

↪Brett

It might not have because ancient Greek culture currently has a significant influence on western society.

Banno

How so? — Brett

Some early science.

Wheatley

@Brett Never mind @Banno

Science is further down the track and developed from one of those pillars, or two, or a mutation. — Brett

What pillars specifically?

Brett

↪Wheatley

It seems to me that actions come before words. Things are named. The word doesn’t create the thing.

Brett

↪Banno

You mean this is science.

Wheatley

↪Brett

It was necessary for Greeks to come up with the word politics to describe what was happening in their democratic government.

The four pillars of humanity.

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