"What is positive about Nihilism is the realization that there is nothing to lose...so what are you afraid of?" - Ray Brassier

It often seems to me, and I myself choose accordingly, that life has the meaning one gives it. A lot of first hand experience indicates this in my life. The times I felt overall like life wasn't worth it, or is just boring, I lived accordingly. Now that I often choose what I focus on, I choose what meaning, or lack there of, my life has. Despite or because of outside influences as well. This doesn't mean what I say is ultimately true, or necessarily true at all. If all nihilism and it's different types claim is that aspects of life, or life itself, is meaningless, you could still be happy. My impression of this broad and simple description of nihilism is it claims something that's at least difficult for most of us to consider, and leaves it at that. It doesn't qualify the claim further, it just leaves you to take it as you will, and this seems like an unwitting problem. Even if Nietzsche didn't intend for this to be melancholy, frustrating or depressing, of  course it easily is for many people. That's the reason it doesn't seem compatible with happiness. Unless he said (I don't know myself) "Life is meaningless and therefore not worth it" people are adding in an interpretation of his point that isn't inherent. Myself included.

Nietzsche on nihilism, from Wikipedia:

Nietzsche approaches the problem of nihilism as a deeply personal one, stating that this problem of the modern world has "become conscious" in him. Furthermore, he emphasizes both the danger of nihilism and the possibilities it offers, as seen in his statement that "I praise, I do not reproach, [nihilism's] arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!" According to Nietzsche, it is only when nihilism is overcome that a culture can have a true foundation on which to thrive. He wished to hasten its coming only so that he could also hasten its ultimate departure. — Wikipedia, ‘Friedrich Nietzsche’

It isn’t so much that life has no meaning, but that life’s meaning is not determined for us, nor beyond our capacity to determine for ourselves. It is as much to say that nothing matters as to say that everything matters - and from that, humanity is free to imagine, hypothesise and test value systems to construct a cultural reality - from everything - that would be most likely to thrive.

this is the response I receive almost all of the time. "You make your own meaning". This rarely helps me overcome the depression that I experience, as it's just a means of saying "why not" in different words. It makes sense that life cannot have meaning, but that doesn't give me any comfort, unfortunately. It would have the same outcome whether I kill myself or not, and the same goes for every living thing.

I guess it depends on what you mean by meaning, and whether you require your particular life to have meaning, or do you mean the existence of the human species, or do you mean that life itself should continue to exist?

at any of those levels it is possible to find a way for you to give yourself some purpose and I present some examples which I recommend you to consider as ways to approach the subject rather than as specific suggestions.

1. at the level of the whole planet, you could think about promoting green ideals such as reducing pollution, CO2 emissions, mineral extraction, and similar environmental ideas so that you are focusing on the very idea of life itself in its broadest possible sense rather than on one rather insignificant organism in a more complex whole.

2. at the level of the human species you could think about conflict resolution or fighting famine, or third world plumbing, or any one of a number of programs to improve the rights and freedoms of indigenous populations throughout the world who are oppressed and marginalised by almost everybody else. in other words, think about lives other than your own. you might not think your life has a purpose but their lives might.

3. at a rather basic level of the single organism life is simply about participating in the process of evolution. participating in the process does not mean you HAVE to reproduce, but merely playing the game is enough. if a guy walks up to a girl he does not know and asks her if she would like to go for dinner, and she says, "no thanks," that is evolution in action. being rejected, believe it or not, is part of the process of evolution. you owe it to the rest of us to at least try.

Kaarlo Tuomi

Well all of these acts amount to absolutely nothing, because the human race, as well as the entire planet, will one day cease to exist.

it's just a means of saying "why not" in different words — JacobPhilosophy

“Why not” is the correct answer.

This is a common pattern across philosophy. People get into a cynically over-skeptical mindset and demand a reason for everything, instead of just rejecting things when there is reason to do so and accepting whatever meanwhile. But if you do that, keep demanding reasons for everything, you fall down an infinite regress of constantly asking for reasons for those reasons ad infinitum, which leads directly into nihilism. The solution is to not do that. Accept anything by default and only reject it when there is reason too — and having no reason to accept it is not the same as having reason to rejecting it.

The metaphor I used to remind myself of this when I was suffering terrible existential angst last year was to imagine myself on the surface of an infinitely deep sea, and tell myself “don’t try to stand on the bottom”. Became there is no bottom so if you try to stand on it you’ll just drown. This doesn’t mean you stick your hands up in the air and hope that Superjesus whisks you off into the sky, either. You’ll drown if you do that too. The solution is to just float on the surface.

In that hypothetical you are assuming that survival, as an instrinsic good, should be strived towards. The main goal of that hypothetical is to make sure you survive. There is no goal to reality so there is therefore no way to act in order to attain this ideal.

The hypothetical is a metaphor. “Drowning” is drowning in doubts and fears, figuratively. You do happen to exist, and the way to make peace with that is to stop trying to find reasons for it, just relax and float in the acceptance that you simply do, and it doesn’t have to be for any reason.

I know it’s easier said than done. I also sent you a PM yesterday with something I hope will be more helpful.

yes, I have been intending on reading that, will do later.

The thought alone of no life having meaning disturbs me quite deeply, and I have these thoughts often, and they are irrefutable. There is no reason to live. — JacobPhilosophy

Your thoughts are just post hoc scripts that magnify and feed-back on the affects of your depression.

Practice observing the emotional affects without getting caught up in the narratives they help generate. Close the gate on memetic instigators.

Do activities which do not involve too much self-reference and which you also enjoy. Take your first person view outside of your body using your imagination. Try flying over a city you've never been to. Go to the moon. Climb the rigging of a sailing ship and sit in the crows nest. Toilet paper Pfhorrest's house.

Imagine reality is irreducible.

Find an animal to interact with in a therapeutic setting. Find some oxytocin release.

Yes it's my intention to help as well as say what I've noticed about nihilism. I can in part echo what Pfhorrest and Nils Loc said about justifying/being stuck in thoughts and emotions. Depression might be a natural eventual experience we have, especially circumstantial. However, to be in a loop where all possibility of something to live for is rejected is just defeatist and prolonging what could be temporary depression. Not only that, if meaning must exist supposedly outside of you or beyond you in order for you to want to live, then you rely on something external when there's more power in choosing a purpose for yourself.

This last point is a very good one. I know it makes just as little sense to have a "meaning" to life", than to have none, but for some reason it doesn't stop me from dwelling on the fact that no action has perminance or value at all, and this leads to me struggling to have goals or value in what I want to do. I think my issue is that I will one day die. Because that is guaranteed, I don't feel like there is any point in doing literally anything. If immortality was guaranteed, or if death was a choice, I feel like I wouldn't have these worries. Then again, infinity is just as inconceivable as finitude is to me.

This Nietzsche quote answers what his intention/perspective was, which I didn't know. It also explains a lot as to why nihilism is usually seen as depressing, frustrating etc. because it's implied by Nietzsche calling it a modern crises that he himself openly saw it as something to be fixed or eradicated.

I realize there's a couple of different ways to respond to was is definitely difficult to struggle with. One way is more practical the other is again philosophical.

I think the only way you can get beyond this rut is to find some way to uplift how you feel. It's a simple and also difficult thing to say, but I doubt that there's any amount of logic alone or pondering what might not have an answer that can make you overcome this. Another way of seeing this: I notice though that you need permanence in order to see value in living or having goals. I can relate, but where I would say something different is considering that Buddhists see life as impermanent. They never say life has no value simply because of that, so their response to the idea of impermanence is finding value despite that.

But why should I get beyond this rut? If it leads me into manic depression and then suicide then why not? Since these questions have no answer, I struggle to actively avoid these thoughts.

Your thoughts are just post hoc scripts that magnify and feed-back on the affects of your depression. — Nils Loc

:100:

But why should I get beyond this rut? — JacobPhilosophy

Because you want to. If you exist anyway and don’t want to die and don’t expect to live forever then may as well enjoy living while you can, and spiraling about meaninglessness isn’t helping anything, so may as well just try to stop doing that if you can.

Which is what you’re here in this thread for isn’t it?

I guess that is why, yes. The whole "make the most of the one life you have" argument seems to implicitly claim that life has value. Then again, you weren't explicitly saying it in those words. I think finitude and meaninglessness is necessary for existence. I wonder if it could be that reality could have been any other way? If not, then I guess it's counter-intuitive to let it bother me. Although I could be pedantic and say that what I "want" doesn't matter, so the fact that I want to stop thinking about it makes no difference to the reality of it, and equally how it affects me is indifferent.

I WILL die. — JacobPhilosophy

No one knows what death is for the dyer.

What I don't like about philosophy is that you have to accept certain assumptions that cannot possibly be proven in any manner. There is a certain point in every argument in which you have to say "well just because", and this is when I feel often that the argument itself is pointless. For example, when considering what is ethical in a debate, you have to assume that suffering is bad and that pleasure is good, because there is no conceivable way to progress otherwise.

What I don't like about philosophy is that you have to accept certain assumptions that cannot possibly be proven in any manner. — JacobPhilosophy

You don’t have to. Doesn’t Nihilism do precisely this; reject all assumptions?

Well a nihilist can't debate anything then, without being contradictory to this sentiment.

Another issue I'm having is just having goals in life. I think this is in part because of COVID, as this wasn't an issue beforehand, but starting college is a tormenting concept to me, as any future path seems pointless and like it will amount to nothing.

If not, then I guess it's counter-intuitive to let it bother me. — JacobPhilosophy

Exactly. If it is true that nothing matters, then it doesn't matter that nothing matters. If it doesn't matter that nothing matters then it's not a problem that nothing matters, so why worry about nothing mattering?

They can debate the validity of assumptions. Nihilism is usually a consequence of debate, or discourse. It is the conclusion that is drawn from the inability to justify any assumptions.

If it were possible for you to exist forever, then how would that change what matters?

You'll never hear this question being asked by a soldier on the front lines or a man struggling to feed his impoverished village. You won't hear this question being asked by a mother struggling to take care of her newborn child. This type of question arises out of a certain state of being so if you're looking for an answer maybe just look to the state that you're in.

Reading back in the thread, it looks like you're starting college soon so you're probably on the younger side. If you're only 18 it's natural to feel this sort of confusion because you're in this transitional phase into adulthood. Just go enjoy college assuming it's still on: make some friends, drink some beer, and meet a partner. You'll be alright. Life won't seem as pointless when you start a family or fall in love or start caring for a bigger cause.

By the way, what reason does a nihilist have for complying to certain morals? If they are meaningless statements, then why care about ethics?

It wouldn't. Equally, having an objective meaning wouldn't affect what matters to me as I'd just be a cog in a machine. Then again, I'm a determinist and a nihilist so I'm just a cog in a useless machine that has no purpose and cannot be stopped

It's hard to believe this and yet mourn a death or strive for ethical treatment.