The attitude you embody, though it truly does come from a place of higher critical intelligence, fails to see that Peterson is doing damage in culture. Whether one likes it or not, he has become relevant, people are influenced by him, they look up to him and see him as the very thing he is not, an intellectual example. When intellectuals like yourself withdraw from the advancing public discourse, the narrative is lost to people like Peterson, it regresses. — JerseyFlight
Maybe. But you could say the same about many other issues as well -- Creationism, QAnon conspiracies, 9/11 truthers, Anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, etc. If we spend all of our time doing battle with this nonsense, we'll never move on. — Xtrix
It's a strange phenomenon these days: once someone has locked into a dogma, it's like a black hole -- there's no coming out of it. One wonders what attracts people to these black holes in the first place, but that's why we need to stick to rational argument, evidence, science, etc. -- and hope most people are sane enough to accept reality. — Xtrix
Turns out, most people are -- we already have the numbers in this country and around the world. Better to shore up these people and get to work collectively than bother with a minority of those who are too far gone to be rescued. — Xtrix
In reality this is an admission that one doesn't actually know what to do and so they retreat to the idyllic past, but here the image of the past is itself distorted, projected as a kind of utopia from which mankind has departed. Such a response to the increase of cultural sophistication, which is a response of fear, makes one out to be a reactionary. — JerseyFlight
Further, when Peterson posits that life is dismal, he very likely means something more by it than the fact we have made it dismal. For Peterson, there is a God behind the world, and mankind is in a fallen state, this means humans are, in one sense or another, predestined to the production of negativity — JerseyFlight
The reader needs to be clear, Peterson is a Nihilist, which simply means he accepts the false presumption that value must be rooted is some kind of Eternal, Absolute Idealism in order for value to exist at all. — JerseyFlight
This is exactly it, and tragically these young people don't have the resources to place him in context as an intellectual. There is nothing there. Even in the domain of psychology this guy is a joke. The amount of revolutionary research and progress in psychology, in the last 20 years alone, is breathtaking. Peterson exemplifies and embodies none of it. He is still trying to preach the moth-eaten narrative that will power is the agent of human psychological salvation. We know this is nonsense, many other factors are at work. Like I accurately said, he's a conformist and a reactionary. But what is most tragic is that he's not turning out thinkers, he's creating more like himself, those who mindlessly validate the status quo. It should be noted, this is the direct opposite of what it means to be a thinker. — JerseyFlight
I think most of what he says is fairly common sense and likely to produce the good results he claims it will. — Judaka
Peterson advocates for the empowerment of the individual — Judaka
I do it because ideology is dangerous, it destroys lives and sabotages democratic freedom, paving the way to irreparable systems of violence. — JerseyFlight
Hitler brought himself into power through the zealous actions of a minority. — JerseyFlight
Real empowerment, based on your real position and abilities within society. He argues that you should take care of yourself, then if you get that right, try to take care of your family, if you succeed there then try to play an active role in your community. He merely points out that if you can't even get your own shit together then how are you qualified to be explaining to the rest of the world how the economy should function or how law or society should function. Isn't that just common sense? — Judaka
Your value isn't determined by how much you change the course of the nation, one should focus on things in their immediate area first where you can actually make a difference and when they're able to handle that kind of responsibility. — Judaka
There's a huge difference between quoting what someone has said or written and what one thinks a person is implying.I should have use the word "implies" instead of "claim," although I honestly don't see much difference, because the implication implies the claim whether spoken or not. — JerseyFlight
When the "right" is represented by an narcissistic idiot like Trump, it's no wonder that a reasonable academic conservative like Peterson gets attention and ends up in the target hairs of the left. In truth the quality of modern political discourse is really appalling.I am not really surprised to see Peterson being unpopular on a highly left-leaning platform but while I don't agree with him on everything, I find his criticisms of the left to be very useful and instructive. I think most of what he says is fairly common sense and likely to produce the good results he claims it will. — Judaka
Chapter 6 of Peterson's book is "Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world" but he obviously doesn't mean that literally. He's not saying only people whose houses are 100% clean are entitled to try to change the world. Nor does he says that only people whose family lives are perfect are entitled to opinions. — BitconnectCarlos
Especially when his self-help instructions got popularity, this seemed (somehow) as a political following to leftists. — ssu
And as I mentioned, his commentary on the Canadian bill was an obvious issue about "culture war", just smacked right into it. Yet what he made his talks about I think were typically closer to his academic job.Peterson explicitly makes political statements. — Echarmion
So, what does he say, in your interpretation? What's the connection between setting your house in order and criticizing the world? — Echarmion
This is indeed the dilemma: how does one convince culturated slaves of the evil of slavery? Along comes a man and tells them to adhere to their masters, deep down they have always felt this to be true, when they heed the advice they notice the world makes more sense, their existential angst vanishes, they feel a stronger sense of purpose and they can detect order in the world. All of these things are the products of conformity, they are the result of validating the false truth of what is administered, but this cannot be the way of thinkers. Little does the one who obeys comprehend that his existence is predetermined by a process of production, of the which, he is merely a cog in the wheel. If he never stops to question the system he finds no discontent with it. Let us then praise the preachers of conformity! Let us adhere to their pious ways! After all, there is nothing wrong with the system, the problem cannot be systemic, the fault lies with the individual's inability to re-frame his discontent. "Stand up straight, put on a suite, go out and face the world with confidence, for all is equal and fair, opportunity awaits, banish every negative thought." — JerseyFlight
But yes, he's been talking about cultural marxists, when at least in my view basically it's more about the effects of post-modernity or anti-modernism of our times rather than a plot of marxists (simply because there's so few actual marxists around). — ssu
He means set yourself/your mindset in order. — BitconnectCarlos
Peterson starts off the chapter talking about the Columbine killers and Carl Panzram - both of whom hated being and described so in detail in their manifestos or biographies. The Columbine killers hated pretty much everything. And they were right in regard to a lot of it - life is often pain, life is unfair, injustice happens constantly. But if you're just criticizing and coming at things from this type of perspective it's a monstrous and nihilistic way to approach the world even if you happen to share some opinions with normal, rational folks. — BitconnectCarlos
In politics there might be some use for these people, but Peterson is always speaking to the individual. Political philosophy or theory tends to deal in groups, Peterson does not. — BitconnectCarlos
I will say, your response can be directly applied to how people respond to philosophical pessimism. In other words, when the pessimist casts aspersions on being born and life itself, pointing out the structural deficiencies and negative aspects of that structure, people will turn it around on the questioner. It must be a deficiency in the person seeing the deficiency, but never the system itself. You can call it existential gaslighting. — schopenhauer1
I agree, we do need to do all these things. But we must also refute error, if we do not it will gain simply because it's attempt to deceive goes unchallenged and the ignorant have no defense against it. As intellectuals we have a social responsibility in this direction. — JerseyFlight
Turns out, most people are -- we already have the numbers in this country and around the world. Better to shore up these people and get to work collectively than bother with a minority of those who are too far gone to be rescued.
— Xtrix
Here, my friend, your optimism is misplaced. — JerseyFlight
Hitler brought himself into power through the zealous actions of a minority. Ayn Rand and Milton Friedman shifted the entire nature of American economics in the direction of capitalism. When they were on the scene intellectuals said the same things about them that you are now saying about Peterson. Our resistance to this kind of stuff matters. I do not do it because it brings me pleasure or I have some kind of obsession, I do it because ideology is dangerous, it destroys lives and sabotages democratic freedom, paving the way to irreparable systems of violence. — JerseyFlight
Peterson advocates for the empowerment of the individual while acknowledging the difficulty of life as well as the wonderment of life. I think his framing is well designed to give the individual resilience as well as hope, promoting competence and taking responsibility. What power do you think he avoids questioning? — Judaka
But much like political hobbyism, one can think they're doing a great deal when they're really just wasting their time — Xtrix
In Peterson's case it's simply conformity, validating the false truth of the administered world as though it comprised totality — JerseyFlight
But much like political hobbyism, one can think they're doing a great deal when they're really just wasting their time
— Xtrix
How does a thinker know when he's not wasting time? — JerseyFlight
When he's talking to those who can think and hear. — Xtrix
It's quite clear that the PR or Human Resources departments of large corporations aren't suddenly staffed by "cultural marxists" and the vast majority of university students aren't indoctrinated to marxism, yet public discourse and the discourse of the culture wars have obviously changed. I think this change has been noted and explained well for instance people like Steven Pinker.But one good video to look at for Petersons political stance is in his interview with Steven Pinker, the author of enlightenment now. Watching it, it was very obvious to me that Peterson at every turn brought up "cultural marxism" and "post-modernism" as the bogeyman that threaten our achievements, while Pinker, while sharing some of Peterson's views, was much more neutral. — Echarmion
I wouldn't it's his main focus. Perhaps it would be similar to say that the main focus of Noam Chomsky's philosophy is to criticize US foreign policy. That he obviously has done in several books, but I gather the linguist who calls himself a left libertarian would have more to say about his personal philosophy. And so too with Peterson.The "culture war" is not just an aside for Peterson. It's the main focus of his philosophy. He conceptualizes it as literally an archetypical fight between light and darkness. — Echarmion
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