• EnPassant
    670
    It is not just the fact that the ego wants something of it. "Intrinsic" beauty exists only if the individual - or in the case of the crowd, the individuals - and his ego decides that it has intrinsic valueGus Lamarch

    In that case there is, in your opinion, no objective value in anything. That is what I disagree with.

    This vision of yours is tied to the prejudice attributed to egoism, so maybe you see the ego as a cancer, a parasite that destroys everything it touches; the ego is seen as something "evil", dark, which brings disgraceGus Lamarch

    I don't think ego is always bad. And I do agree that it can be a motivating force but it can become bad. But it is not the only motivating force. I believe values exist beyond the ego and beauty is not something that depends on the ego to exist. Otherwise only ego-centered people could appreciate beauty.

    Some of what you say is true. Ego can be a motivating force but so can greed, hatred, love, fear...
    You will find many examples that seem to support your view but I can see many examples that support my view; namely that external values can be a motivating force.

    The ego is only a point of view of the world. It is not a thing in itself. It is a focal point. And the only values it can be associated with are those values it has appropriated for itself. But those values exist independently of the ego, otherwise it could not appropriate them.

    For example a rich and successful man may take great pride in his riches. But he is not rich because he is great although his ego may tell him he is. He is rich because riches exist independently of him. For the most part, he just got lucky. He appropriated riches to himself and imagines he has them because he is great.

    A beautiful woman thinks she is beautiful: she thinks she is beautiful. But that is not her. It is natural physical beauty that she is associated with, again by luck and chance and no greatness of her own. But she is vain. Her ego tells her she and her physical beauty are the same thing. This is illusion. All vanities and ego-centered thinking is illusion. And yes, there is something parasitical about it because the ego cannot have value on its own merits. The ego is desire: a desire to possess. The man says "These riches are mine" the woman says "This beauty is mine. It is me." But all that is really happening is that these people are in a fleeting relationship with values, riches and beauty that exist independently of them.
  • Gus Lamarch
    924
    The ego is only a point of view of the world.EnPassant

    One thing is for sure: - We can agree to disagree. :smile:
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