The point, such as it is, was that if one advocates democratic rule because they consider it a moral 'good', then there's a conflict when that democracy results in something which they consider a moral 'bad'. Unless, of course, a person has no moral goods other than promoting democracy. — Isaac
To be truly devoted to democracy means you can allow the people to make mistakes (Donald Trump). — frank
You don't abandon the system just because it handed you a defeat, or because someone managed to subvert it. — frank
Numerous reasons. That's a historical, cultural, and psychological question. — frank
To be clear -
How and why things are the way they are: A matter for experts - if I want to know I'll read a book.
What people think about how things ought to be: Not a matter for experts, if I want to know I have to just ask people. — Isaac
If I were responsible (evil meddling psychologist that I am) for creating a platoon of ruthless assassins by behavioural programming, Jason Bourne style, do you think I'd have some responsibility for the actions of the resulting unit, and how ought I exercise that responsibility? — Isaac
Could you make this question a little more explicit? — frank
Sure. Do you think that we have responsibility for our effects on the personality and beliefs of others? — Isaac
Say, if I, through my God awful parenting, produced an absolute monster, do I just let them loose on society at 18 and wash my hands of them (respect their "Freedom to decide" as you put it)? Or do I have some responsibility to act as some restrainer of their excess? — Isaac
If you discover that you were born with a genius for manipulating people, I advise that you don't use it at all because if you think you have the wisdom to use it, you are almost certainly wrong. — frank
In a sense, that's the moral ground in which I think anti-democratic, but moral, legislation might stand. — Isaac
That's what Roe was. Insurance against the possibility that future generations saw fit to deny those rights - not by virtue of them merely disagreeing (that would be opposed to ordinary respect for autonomy), but by virtue of the previous generation having failed to bring them up to be sufficiently moral human beings to have their preferences respected. — Isaac
Laws and constitutional amendments are the mechanisms for cementing the will of the people.
Roe comes from an era when it was thought that judges should take it upon themselves to make social changes that havent been arrived at democratically. Times have changed. — frank
If the people judge that murder is taking place in private, then it's most definitely a governmental issue. — frank
Your statement seems more like a play on words than a serious objection.
Is a fertilized egg, a non-viable fetus, or a near term fetus, a person? Thereby hangs the tale. — Bitter Crank
Defining a fertilized egg or a non-viable / viable fetus as a person seems to be first a religious definition (based on the idea of 'ensoulment') that has been taken up by religious-minded secular legislators. — Bitter Crank
Laws and constitutional amendments are the mechanisms for cementing the will of the people.
Roe comes from an era when it was thought that judges should take it upon themselves to make social changes that havent been arrived at democratically. Times have changed. — frank
The 18th Amendment concretized SOME peoples' will to ban liquor — Bitter Crank
Laws and constitutional amendments are the mechanisms for cementing the will of the people. — frank
elect people who will provide protection through laws. — frank
A lot of Americans are religious. So what — frank
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