You are describing the forming of energy into more complex forms, that we conceptualize as elementary particles, that form atoms, that form molecules, that form cellular proteins, that form cells, etc. Yes I agree with this. I suspect that the heart of consciousness is the anthropic principle ( the combined laws of the universe causing things to integrate in an interrelational and self organizing manner ) that cause this forming. But the quantum world seems random and probabilistic - it has no form - it only has probability. The double slit experiment, the wave function collapse speak of our inability to interact with the quantum world. When we interact with it we transform it to form - a point particle.

Yes we are still talking about an energetic particle, but it has been entangled to form. Consciousness has many forms. It is about information processing. Needs to memorize information to a stable form. We have been talking about this in the "what is information" thread. your views would be appreciated?

You are describing the forming of energy into more complex forms, that we conceptualize as elementary particles, that form atoms, that form molecules, that form cellular proteins, that form cells, etc. — Pop

Yes i said this, so you wont see matter as something special or something that is required to create Consciousness.
I am glad that we are on the same page :) .

But the quantum world seems random and probabilistic - it has no form - it only has probability. — Pop

I don't believe is random and probabilistic. It has form, but that form last only couple of nanoseconds in our time(other call this quantum entanglement). In quantum world time it can be days or maybe more.
For now we don't have the devices to measure it and see which physics laws are working there.

If you flip a coin and you just look elsewhere when you toss it, it will look for you random and probabilistic.
If you measure the force applied to the toss and using a special device you can try to reproduce the same force on the toss to the coin , then it wont look random anymore :).It will be very difficult to do this by hand only as small variations on the force can produce different results.
The same is happening on quantum world, if something is so small that only my breath can affect the results that i cant measure it, so will look random to me.

You can read this article https://www.quantamagazine.org/black-hole-paradoxes-reveal-a-fundamental-link-between-energy-and-order-20200528/

Yes we are still talking about an energetic particle, but it has been entangled to form. Consciousness has many forms. It is about information processing. Needs to memorize information to a stable form — Pop

Yes i agree with this.
To add just a simple definition, i believe Consciousness = is the information exchange in an ordered state from energy interactions.

i believe Consciousness = is the information exchange in an ordered state from energy interactions. — Adughep

How about, an ordered state has form, and information **is the interaction of form.

Information is the interaction of form in systems, and information is the interaction of form between systems. Seems like a definition of information to me: Information is the evolutionary interaction of form. - What do you think?

I don't believe is random and probabilistic. It has form, but that form last only couple of nanoseconds in our time(other call this quantum entanglement). In quantum world time it can be days or maybe more. For now we don't have the devices to measure it and see which physics laws are working there. — Adughep

When we interact with it we change it - there is the problem of the informational link. If you agree with the definition of information above, then you will see we can only interact with something that has form. We cannot interact with something that does not have form.

I'm very into information at the moment. This is something I can work with and describe logically.
There is little I can do with QM, but Enrique is into quantum consciousness.

Yes you are correct.You can say that only an ordered state "can be" and "is" a form. And interactions are possible only between forms.


I agree with your statements about information. :clap:
For me they have good logic, i am not sure if you can describe them in a better logical or simpler way.
Maybe if you compare this logic to some of real life examples ? (this might complicate things or simplify them depending of the person and the examples )
I will read and watch the information thread.

Hi, you come and go so infrequently?
You would be a good asset in discussions of the mass - energy - information equivalence principle, since you already have this insight. It seems to me, information is the way of the future. It leads to a theory of everything as evolving informational bodies, and we can be certain of this since we need an informational body about something in order to be able to understand it. So I hope you do join the conversation. The definition of information thread is fizzling out now, but I will make something new soon, and I hope to hear your views there. :smile:

Sorry i was away with work and tried to concentrate in sports and spending less time near a computer or on a phone. (Now I am working as an IT engineer and i studied Medical Physics at the university).
Looks like they need a couple of real examples in the information definition thread.
I will try to post one or two real examples in that thread and i hope it wont confuse people more.