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Fear is being sold as a commodity by the news and politicians, consumed because people enjoy being scared and enjoy the drama. Surveys I've read indicate that the average person is not afraid of death but really, of course, we're not afraid of death when it's absent. Even just an activity with a remote chance of death is enough, a bike ride down a hill going fast when you're not used to it, the fear can't be stifled by philosophy.

We should fear death. We're the only ones who die.

We should fear death. There are good reasons to fear death.

We should fear death. No other emotion is appropriate.

We should fear death. Death is the most fearsome of all.

We shouldn't fear death. We don't die

We shouldn't fear death. There are no good reasons to fear death

We shouldn't fear death. Fear isn't appropriate for death

We shouldn't fear death. Death is not fearsome.

Should we fear death? Even absent an afterlife, or maybe even especially absent an afterlife, I'd say no. Fear of death would be justified if Hell were real and there were some chance of ending up there. But I am sure that's nonsense.

I subscribe to something along the lines of Daniel Kolak's open individualism or Arnold Zuboff's universalism (there is only one universal experiencer which has all experiences everywhere and at all times), and so I don't think the death of this body will mean the end of my experiences, being rather just a temporal boundary on this particular window through which I see part of the world. But even if I were a closed individualist (the default view most people have about personal identity, whether they believe in a soul or afterlife or not, in which each person is a truly distinct subject) and believed the death of this body to be the end of myself, I don't think oblivion is something I should fear, as I won't be there to regret my annihilation. The lead-up to it could be something worth fearing however.

Regardless, I do in fact fear death. And I find it hard to explain exactly why. At the same time, it is sometimes attractive. There is ambivalence. Eros and Thanatos?

Assuming closed individualism, if I could press a button that would instantly end my experiential life without any pain, and would replace my consciousness with an automatic program that would go on to finish my life for me as a P-zombie with nobody else being the wiser, so that I don't have to worry about hurting others, would I press the button? There are times when I would be tempted. But I would hesitate! I have doubts that I could ever go ahead and press it. It would be nice to have such a button in my pocket though, just to know that the option is always within reach should things become unbearable.

It would seem that fear of death is probably at least partly instinctual. Organisms that aren't motivated to struggle to preserve themselves will quickly be selected out.

A book I'd highly recommend is Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death. The fear of death might explain much more of human behavior than we normally recognize.

A book I'd highly recommend is Ernest Becker's The Denial of Death. — petrichor

I second this. :up:

What's the point? Is it like a polite bodybuilder that will avoid you if start getting nervous when he gets closer? lol.

I'd fear a life without death to be honest. Much more could happen. Becoming trapped somewhere, etc.

.... — Caldwell

:death: :flower:

:death: :flower: — 180 Proof

:smile: Hi Proof!

People like us are often able to intellectualize death away to a safe distance, me too, but I'm guessing that defense will crumble when the time comes. We'll probably never know how we really feel about death until we get there.

That said, to the degree we can manage our relationship with death, experience seems a more promising methodology than ideas. What we're really afraid of is the loss of the data which makes up "me", our memories, thoughts, ideas, personality etc. That's what death is for us, the absence of data. To varying degrees we can experiment with and experience that death now while we're alive.

Death is one of the few empirical certainties we have. An idea is evaluated by its ability to face death. Only what matters to us is mortally important, the truths for which we would die, and which are worth more than life. Ninety-nine percent of what we think is of no importance. Getting rid of vanity and adopting death as a criterion is a good start in philosophy.

Besides, fear of dying is like fear of shitting: it is fleeing the inevitable.

Couldn't answer on whether we should or not. What I can say is that the fear of death isn't something you can just rationalise away and you don't have that much control over what you fear.

It isn't death specifically that we fear, it is the unknown which we fear the most. If we could be certain of an afterlife where all is merry and well, where everybody gets to go, then you'd probably have a lot less fear, but a lot more suicide. That being said people would feel less hurt by anothers suicide if they knew they were going to a better place and if they knew they would see them there again.

If I shoved you onto a bus and said that we might be going somewhere nice, we might be going somewhere bad and we might never ever stop driving, you'd be terrified. You might even try and get the driver to just keep driving if you believe it is likely it is taking you to the bad place.

Death is nothing to fear, the unknown however, is.

I've felt less fear of death when I've felt more like I have nothing to lose.

People like us are often able to intellectualize death away to a safe distance, me too, but I'm guessing that defense will crumble when the time comes. We'll probably never know how we really feel about death until we get there. — Hippyhead

Some say fear is all in the mind. In a way that old adage rings true. Of course, fear and shock can induce a physiological reaction as well ie. anxiety attack, hyperventilation, sweaty palms, trembling, etc. Defense mechanisms to keep one alive and give extra energy to be able to either flee an environment or fight the danger present. Military training teaches you to override this through discipline and attachment to a larger unit/idea- you're something greater than yourself while also being something lesser. Your mission can still be completed even if you don't survive- but it can also fail and other people could die if you give up or give in any time beforehand.

It was around fiveish that day. The dust from the convoy swirled in the light breeze and the sun was low on the horizon. Under the shade of a tree that had seen better days stood this young man. Looked mid-20's, swarthy, about 6 foot, dressed in all-black combat fatigues, a black bandana to match concealing his short-cropped hair. He stood there with his back against us, his head turned slightly to the right. His youthful features were silhouetted against the last light of dusk, he was expressionless, calm, aloof, distant. His left arm hung lazily on his side, a fully loaded AK-47 in his right hand. I've never seen regular soldiers up that close and never have I been in their company but this young man, this nameless soldier, gave me the impression that, for the first time in my life, I had seen a real soldier, a battle-hardened one who had seen and survived actual combat. What is death to such men I wonder?

Fear. What we do with fear – how we use fear is what matters, and not the mere affect. Ask any boxer who's about to step into the ring or fireman on his way to a five-alarm blaze or soldier as she's being deployed in an active combat zone. Fear is either your ally or the enemy, either you use it to drive you onward or you give it the chance to recoil and/or paralyze you. Fear of death, dying, decay-decrepitude, disease, loss of loves, disasters (sudden impoverishment), failure, betrayal, falling ... Read Epicurus or Epictetus. Read Spinoza or Wittgenstein. Read Lucretius or Camus. Reflect on fear in order to live fully ("dangerously" - F.N.), don't pathologize it.

:death: :flower:

To pound on the point a bit...

There is of course a great deal of speculation about what death is, and thus the question of whether we should fear it. How to proceed?

Imagine there was a special room at a university where we could go to temporarily and safely experience death. It seems that any serious thinker on the subject of death would pause their speculations and go do the experiment. Then they could further refine their ideas from there, based on experience instead of just unprovable theories.

The point I wish to pound is that, if we define death as the absence of data, we can to some degree or another do the experiment through techniques like meditation. And/or we can simply carefully observe our daily life and note those times when abstractions are absent.

If it's true that we can find a taste of death in our normal daily lives if we pay attention, and if we don't wish to do that, then what's the point of a pile of abstract theories?

and others
You mentioned a couple of authors I have not read, who look interesting. I will check them out, although we are a bit limited by libraries remain closed, and I just hope there is no further London lockdown as I don't think many of the bookshops would survive a second full blown lockdown. I do read e-books but do prefer paper books.
I originally started to this thread because there is such a fear of death pervading our culture. However, my initial quest about life after death began when I was a student and got the question 'Is there life after death ?' as an essay title and went on reading on this subject and my views have shifted at various times. I feel that it is the most essential question, perhaps more so than the existence of God, because from a personal perspective, it makes all the difference whether we have one earthly existence or an immortal life. If approached as a philosophical question rather than as part of an established body of religious teachings, it is a big puzzle because we cannot experience death directly.
We have the near death experience accounts but the individuals did not die completely, so they might indicate a possibility of an afterlife but they could have just been dream experiences. If they count for anything they do point to possible dimensions explored in The Tibetan Book of the Dead. However, the Tibetan tradition of Hinduism believed in reincarnation rather one life followed by an immortal existence.
Personally, I would prefer to think that we have many lives because it would give more opportunities for exploring life rather than the limits of one life. But I would not wish to believe it simply because I like it, as the truth is more important than what one would like. Also, there are complications to the idea, such as whether a person could come back as an animal sometimes or, having evolved to the human kingdom, would most likely come back in future lives as another human being.
Having been brought up in a Roman Catholic, and most of my friends are Christians, most of them believe in life after death but are rather vague about this. Within Christian theology there are 2 very different strands of thought: a belief in immortality which was derived from the founding fathers' reading of Plato, and a belief in a resurrection at the end of the world. These two ideas are not necessarily compatible with each other, but I have yet to meet a churchgoers who spends time worrying about this.
As it is, I don't want to spend my whole life pondering the mystery of life after death and not living this one as a result, but I do find it to be a fascinating question. I am not completely convinced that there is life after death but I think it is a possibility. In the meantime, perhaps life and death are two antagonists energies, as Petrichor drew upon, in Freud's suggestion of the conflict between Eros and Thanatos.

Absolutely. Fear of death is an emotional motivation to stay alive. Death is game over. No do overs. No more accomplishments. Fear of death can be why you decide to do something with your life instead of sit on the couch all day and live a menial existence.

Does that mean we should be consumed by it or base all of our decisions off of it? No. Emotions are quick judgements that give us an over all digest of the situation. They are very useful when a bear is intending to maul you, but you need rationality to figure out the best way to handle the situation.

Emotions are an integral part of your thinking brain. In trying to conquer them, some believe we should pretend we do not feel them, ignore them, or crush them. Embrace them. Rationality alone or emotion alone leave you in a much more confused state in life, while marrying them together will leave you able to manage life at your most capable.

Death is game over — Philosophim

It's interesting that so many of us are so sure we know such things.

It's interesting that so many of us are so sure we know such things. — Hippyhead

We can only know what is available to us. We know that the brain is where our ability to think comes from. Take some brain damage, and you're not going to be the same person. Loads of science backs this. We know that when you die, the brain stops working. Anything else is something from the imagination.

You and I will cease to exist Hippyhead. We are no different from the matter that is all around us. It too will change forms, break apart, and join into something new. But you are only "you" when matter organizes into a human being with your particular working brain. The glow from my screen only happens when matter organizes in that particular way. There is no heaven for your brain. There is no heaven for my monitor.

That being said, can we postulate that there is something underlying all of matter on Earth? Perhaps that we are part of some greater living consciousness, or that there is something beyond our observation? Absolutely. But that is not what we can know. Generally, we make decisions about how to live on what we know, not on what we imagine. For all you know, you have one chance at being you before you meet your permanent end. It is best you live your life according to this knowledge, as it would be a terrible tragedy for a person to live on the prediction of a fantasy.

I respect your religion. :-)

I respect your religion. :-) — Hippyhead

If a religion is an ideal that you live your life by in regards to what is beyond it, I suppose it IS a religion. We can call it the YOLO religion. What do you think?

YOLO?

Technically we probably shouldn't call atheism a religion, but yea, it's a faith based big picture perspective which does have real world implications for we the still living.

I remember hearing a show about suicide on NPR awhile back. The entire show was experts discussing how we should work to prevent suicide. Very good intentions, kinda sloppy philosophy. I couldn't help but hear this message blaring from the show...

Dear person considering suicide: Ok, so your life really sucks, we hear you, but suicide should be avoided at all costs, because the alternative to your sucky life is even worse! We hope you feel better now.

It is dreadful when make abusive use of the fear of death to people who are feeling dreadful enough to want to commit suicide. I have a few people who did commit suicide and they were people who had wrestled with some of the issues of God's existence, heaven and hell etc. The people who exploit people's fears are more likely to contribute to the emotional pain which makes people feel suicidal.

YOLO — Hippyhead

You Only Live Once

I think that it's OK to fear death. It's the one thing it's impossible to recover from. A true point of no return (for our conscience, at least).

Now, regarding "should," maybe that's highly dependant on culture and social environment. People do kill themselves regularly, out of a variety of reasons, so either they weren't afraid or they somehow overcame fear.

Perhaps "should fear" is too debatable to settle on anything. May I suggest "respect"?

I fear death. I just fear dementia and infirmity more. I'm pro-Euthenasia, both politically and personally. Actually I'm pro-Euthenasia about quite a few people.

Perhaps my use of the word should conjures up too much of a moral stance and I certainly never intended that. I chose the world fear because I believe that fear of death is so abundant at the moment, and this was explained in my earlier writing, if you read that rather than my response to someone else's statement.
I am not sure what asking about respecting death would mean. It sounds like something which would read in an equal opportunities policy. Also, my initial question was not really about fearing death in relation to suicide but about death which will face each one of us eventually.

In response to the issue of dementia I fear that terribly too, because I have worked with people with dementia and it made me so fearful of old age and infirmity.
I am aware that there is already a thread on euthanasia on this site already, but to my way of thinking it is extreme and subject to abuse for political ends.
However, while I think that euthanasia is an extreme but with some exceptions, such as with terminally I'll people who are suffering and wish to die, I think there is an opposite view pervading our culture. That is that life should be extended at all costs and this predominantly our current care system. Personally, I don't want to be kept alive on pots full of medication if I can barely remember my own name, cannot walk or even use the toilet myself.
But who knows whether I would say that if it really happened because I have seen people in extreme states of poor health who seem to cling to life very fiercely. Is it fear of death or the attachment to life in all its pain and glory?

However, while I think that euthanasia is an extreme but with some exceptions, such as with terminally I'll people who are suffering and wish to die — Jack Cummins

To be clear, I'm not pro-Euthenising ones least favourite child. Just that no one should be imprisoned for mercy, decency, love and compassion.

That is that life should be extended at all costs and this predominantly our current care system. Personally, I don't want to be kept alive on pots full of medication if I can barely remember my own name, cannot walk or even use the toilet myself. — Jack Cummins

Agreed. I mean, if you have private health care I guess do what you want. But this idea that it is better to live at all than to live well is, I agree, symptomatic of an unhealthy fear of death, and we shouldn't pander to it.