• Antony Nickles
    1.1k
    Am I the only one somehow unsatisfied with reactions to recent events and the surrounding conversations? Attacks and blame and defense and outrage—pleas and arguments to persuade people to adopt a belief or opinion (even backed by facts and studies). We believe that our desire for certainty (and science) has force; that if we find, or are made to see, reality or truth, it will convince everyone and solve everything (thank you, Plato). But Emerson says (and Heidegger) that the most unhandsome part of our human condition is that the harder we grasp, the more the world slips through our fingers; that character is higher than intellect. What are we missing? Wittgenstein emphasizes the need to see someone as having a soul, and he (and Freud) recognize that our need to maintain an idea of ourselves creates a certain blindness. Is this racism? Is it then a matter of whether we are a racist (“I’m not!”)? something inside of us? a good person or a “bad apple”? how can we know if you believe that Black lives matter? is the argument for it rhetorical? political? ideological? Cavell would say it’s not a matter of knowing someone’s pain, but of acknowledging its moral claim on us. And Wittgenstein would say that then our blindness becomes a choice. What are we to do?

    Nietschze would say that what we are is beyond morality; Marx intimates we are produced by the structure of the world we surround ourselves with; and Arendt calls evil banal, commonplace. We are comprised, and complicit, and compromised ("fated" says Emerson) by what is amongst us. Who we are is our inter-(re)-action with the world (even if a lack of) at a moral moment. Wittgenstein and Austin point out that meaning isn’t whatever we want to believe (say, about ourselves or others); it is everything shared that has come before us—our (and not "our") history, our language, our teachings, our institutions, our culture. They collect our judgments, what we value (or don't), and are the reasons with which we make decisions and only within which we take an action (or fail to). The origin of any sin is imbedded into this contract we are born into with society; we can ignore, or remember, let degrade or give (new) life (those with a voice—entitled to? given? taking?) I guess I feel that to simply find individuals, groups, or opinions, damnable (or righteous), is to avoid the collective, never-ending claim on each of us to improve the character of our country; that it is less a matter of the right feeling, or opinion, or answer, than an answering, an answering for—that this is the burden and opportunity of democracy. What will be our America?
  • creativesoul
    11.9k


    Example of recent event and the reactions to them that you find unsatisfying?
  • Antony Nickles
    1.1k
    @creativesoul: I’m thinking of the structure of current political/social discourse in the framework of analytical philosophy, so, unlike a continental position, I wouldn’t say the content of the event or topic would matter specifically—maybe, where people appear to disagree but also seem to be talking past each other? the sense of impossibility of agreement? can philosophy account for the disappointments of our democracy?
  • creativesoul
    11.9k
    Set the 'kinds' of philosophy aside...

    I do not see any reason to say that philosophy or philosophers cannot properly account for the current political landscape and/or the narratives/discourse. How to best govern a nation of people IS philosophy writ large.

    The difficulty is, by my lights anyway, getting the right sorts of people offering the right sorts of discussion on public media outlets, and doing it often enough that it begins to affect/effect American belief in general. There are far too many irrelevant narratives.

    The problem, at it's base, is that we do not have a well-informed knowledgable electorate(citizens).
  • creativesoul
    11.9k


    For example... Robert Reich, Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren are a treasure trove of accurate, useful, and true information(relevant knowledge) regarding the socioeconomic problems in America and the disasterous public policies which have gotten us where we are today.
  • Antony Nickles
    1.1k
    I’m interested in the connection between: how to govern, with: understanding our discourse. As if finding out what mattered, how it matters, how it is lost or abandoned, allows even the possibility to do what is right. An epistemology not of knowledge or morality to lead the republic, but of method, understanding the conditions of our consent and agreement.
  • BC
    13.6k
    Antony, stay engaged, but give yourself a break. Or a brake, maybe.

    One has to step back from excessive exposure to repetitious daily news (doesn't matter from where -- NPR, Fox, BBC, social media, etc.). An occasional review of a good newspaper is sufficient. Either Thoreau or Emerson said that reading a newspaper once a month was enough. Well, maybe twice a month.

    Once the exposure to the hammering of competing slogans, chants, clichés, distorted information, too much information, and so on is significantly reduced, you can better decide what you actually think.

    It really does take time to sort out the issues we are dealing with, and one doesn't have to agree with every group that thinks THEY are on the side of the angels. BLM? Defund the Police? Too many Catholics on the Supreme Court? Conservatives? Alt-Right? QAnon? (god help us all). A tax-dodging, morally gross, sleazy lying president--well, I find Trump loathsome, but to be honest--he's not the first one, and he won't be the last. Having a senile sort-of liberal president won't be a lot better.

    So, reconcile yourself to being alive during a time of social upheaval, very bad economic policy, lots of screwy people and movements becoming media darlings, and worse. You can keep yourself usefully occupied by closely examining what appears to be going on vs. what is actually going on. (Not everything that glitters is gold.)

    And welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
  • JerseyFlight
    782
    that character is higher than intellect.Antony Nickles

    This is assuredly true because knowledge must be governed by something. Adorno was confronted with this question, the question of the meaning and purpose of philosophy, and he answered it better than anyone has ever answered it. He said the point of thought (and I am here paraphrasing his position, drawing it out to its broadest conclusion) was to assert itself into the social sphere to prevent atrocities from afflicting the species. This is also why Adorno rightly claimed that the horror of Auschwitz could never be embellished too much. Think about this, really pause for a moment and think about it.

    Why would Adorno say this? Because he knew it was a good way to prevent it from reoccurring, a conditioning against violence. Philosophy is the opposite of physical force, and as such, in order to insure its own valuable being in the world, in order to prevent that which causes so much regression in the species, it is necessary for philosophy to ascent to responsibility. In so doing it must seek to protect the foundations that enable it to exist, it must seek to expand these foundations to the farthest reaches of the species.

    There is a point to philosophy and it is not abstraction for the sake of abstraction, those who venture thus fail to comprehend the tool of thought as well as the context in which they exist.
  • Olivier5
    6.2k
    I’m interested in the connection between: how to govern, with: understanding our discourse. As if, if we found out what mattered, how it matters, how it is lost or abandoned, we would do what is right. An epistemology not of knowledge or ethics would lead the republic, but of method, of possibility, of the conditions of our consent and agreement?Antony Nickles

    Well, a democracy is a set of methods to decide who’s boss and for how long, so yes it’s about methods. Democracy is a governance technique, a mean to an end. A way to chose leaders that allows for their replacement, in case they screw up too bad (harder to replace a king than an elected president).

    And it only works when voters are reasonably well informed, as it’s based on their collective wisdom. Therefore, if one wants to undermine or influence a democracy, media are key. There are other tools of course like education (or miseducation), culture and entertainment, and of course overt political activism and discussion, but mass media are one key tool. So yes, it’s about language, how it is bent to serve the masters through mass media. How it is weaponized to teach you hatred of your neighbour. How the mind viruses of QAnon are eating up poor, simple, uneducated/miseducated defenseless souls out there, because nobody every taught them to beware of false prophets, and what their tricks are.

    Murdock’s project is to make his readers and viewers stupid, and it’s working. Hence Brexit and Bush and Trump. CNN is less obvious in its weaponized reporting, softer in its biases. FOX is a psychosis, CNN a neurosis.
  • Hippyhead
    1.1k
    One has to step back from excessive exposure to repetitious daily newsBitter Crank

    This, along with the rest of Crank's post, seems wise advice. It may help a bit to take a clear eyed look at the media.

    First, the media is not in the news business. It's in the ad selling business. Once this is understood much of the rest begins to fall in place.

    Ad revenues are a function of audience size. The larger the audience, the more one can charge.

    Audience size is a function of how well a media platform feeds the psychological needs of the public. That is, audience is built with stimulation, drama. Evidence, Fox News is apparently the leading TV news platform in terms of audience size.

    The journalists who appear on news outlets are probably sincere and well intentioned. But they aren't running the show. It's the business people behind the scenes who make the real decisions. And their job is to care about income, which comes from selling ads, which comes from audience size, which comes from drama.

    I listen to NPR, a fairly mild outlet. But if a bus goes over a cliff in Peru killing 8 people they will run the story, because it's dramatic. I'm a news junkie, it's my life long soap opera addiction. But honestly, looking back I see that if I'd never watched the news my life would have been little different.
  • BC
    13.6k
    Audience size, revenues, and content are related. The purpose of television, for instance, is to sell audiences to advertisers using the content as bait. On the other hand, there is also a business of selling news. It takes a financial base to support news gathering, editing, and presentation, Even in the non-profit sector, NPR has to have revenue--more than it can get from fund drives (shudder); hence, those blasted "enhanced corporate support acknowledgements". No revenue, no publication. That's why so many newspapers have folded.

    In the best operations, the publisher side (financing) is separate from the editor side (news content). Unfortunately, Gresham's Law applies, and bad news operations (like Fox) will drive out excellent news operations. Then there is social media where bad content is often the starting point, and goes downhill from there. How did QAnon spread so far?

    You likely know all this, so just preaching to the choir. You doing OK in these days of plague (one kind or another)?
  • Hippyhead
    1.1k
    You doing OK in these days of plague (one kind or another)?Bitter Crank

    Thanks for asking Crank. How about you?

    Yes, doing ok here. We're the lucky ones so far, the pandemic has not changed our lives too much.

    And, tomorrow is the launch of the winter hiking season here in Florida, a HUGGGGGE day in my personal religion. So doing more than ok at the moment.
  • Changeling
    1.4k
    And, tomorrow is the launch of the winter hiking season here in Florida, a HUGGGGGE day in my personal religion. So doing more than ok at the moment.Hippyhead

    Florida has hiking?
  • Hippyhead
    1.1k
    Florida has hiking?Professor Death

    You bet! I hike pretty much all day everyday for about 6-8 months of the year. Wonderful state park just 4 miles up the road from our house. 7350 acres. Once you get off the main trails, I typically have it all to myself.

    July through September gets kinda dicey, very hot, very humid, very buggy. So I hide out on the Internuts, and get a bad case of bat shit crazy cabin fever.
  • Kevin
    86
    I'm in the space coast - any specific recommendations, within a couple hours?
  • ssu
    8.6k
    The purpose of television, for instance, is to sell audiences to advertisers using the content as bait. On the other hand, there is also a business of selling news. It takes a financial base to support news gathering, editing, and presentation, Even in the non-profit sector, NPR has to have revenue--more than it can get from fund drives (shudder); hence, those blasted "enhanced corporate support acknowledgements". No revenue, no publication. That's why so many newspapers have folded.Bitter Crank

    There has been also the state financed television & broadcast, where basically the funding comes from tax income from those having a television (as here) or other taxes.

    This does have an effect on the agenda of the broadcaster. Here the intention of the government to educate and civilize the population, which is very evident from the assortment of educational series and simply shows that you would never see the light of day even in cable in the US. US type commercialism was especially frowned upon. It's a telling case how the free market compares with central planning.

    This lead even to a doctoral thesis being made in Finland of youth not listening to the radio in the late 1980's with the author giving various reasons EXCEPT the now obvious, that there simply was 1 fucking program for 1 hour that played pop & rock music weekly. (Of course now the youth listen to radio the most and nearly all play pop&rock music). When I told to my friends in school that in the US there was on Saturday mornings cartoons like "Superfriends" airing, they simply couldn't fathom it. Without even the knowledge what people really would like, a central planner has limited knowledge what would be popular and can dismiss things that are popular in other places.

    What a cartoonist thought of Finnish TV in the 1960's:
    Televisioteatteri_small.jpg

    Of course add one commercial channel (either TV or Radio) and this changes the whole situation. Viewer numbers tell simply just what is popular and public and the public broadcaster has to respond to the challenge. There is a logic to the fact that something that gets far more viewers than other programs has something in it. And this public/commercial mix may actually work quite well especially if the response of the public broadcaster is to make well done and insightful dramas and fine documentaries, not the cheap talk shows. Hence the BBC is a good example of a public broadcaster that has made globally popular series (even if the language used is it's ace in the hand).

    The Monty Python Flying Circus aired in 1969 on the BBC. Here John Cleese and the ministry of Silly walks. Hence public broadcasting can hit a nerve just as well as the commercial side.
    kehystetyt-lasitetut-julisteet-monty-python-ministry-of-silly-walks-i16648.jpg
  • BC
    13.6k
    State governments used to fund radio stations in the US --thinking here of the Wisconsin State Radio Network or university radio (like U of Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, Nebraska, and other state universities). The state stations provided the high brow content missing from commercial radio. Highbrow was OK, as long as it wasn't too edgy. Those stations haven't disappeared, for the most part, but they are now more dependent on donations (the fund drives, corporate blurbs, etc.).

    What is the title on the Finnish book? At least Americans didn't have to worry about any dirty Marxists manipulating them.

    I was going to make a claim for the golden age of television, but then remembered that in the middle of my golden era, Newton Minow proclaimed 1960s television to be "a vast wasteland". God, Minow hadn't seen anything yet. Now the wasteland has been enriched by a giant dung heap. (Minow is still alive - he's 94; I read that he was up to date on how bad commercial media continues to be.)

    Still, the vast wasteland and the dung heap have managed to do a great job "educating" the public to fulfill their prime consumption imperative.
  • ssu
    8.6k
    What is the title on the Finnish book? At least Americans didn't have to worry about any dirty Marxists manipulating them.Bitter Crank
    Lol. The closer book is "Mao's thoughts".

    And if you ask older Swedes about their television of from the 60's to the 80's I would guess they would have similar recollections. That's the classic european social democracy in action I guess.

    I was going to make a claim for the golden age of television, but then remembered that in the middle of my golden era, Newton Minow proclaimed 1960s television to be "a vast wasteland". God, Minow hadn't seen anything yet. Now the wasteland has been enriched by a giant dung heap. (Minow is still alive - he's 94; I read that he was up to date on how bad commercial media continues to be.)Bitter Crank

    My children's rabbits decided that our family had had enough of watching "the vast wasteland" and nibbled the television cables. Nobody actually was bothered about the vandalism (or statement?) that our lagomorphs had done as usually we only get together to watch something by going to the movies and otherwise members use the tablets/smart phones/computers (even if I did protect the computer cables). Which tells something where television is going. I did think my principal in my school was crazy when he didn't have a television, but now days it wouldn't be at all so radical.

    DVM_foIVoAASzN-.jpg
  • Hippyhead
    1.1k
    I'm in the space coast - any specific recommendations, within a couple hours?Kevin

    Apologies, but I don't really know that part of the state, but here's a good resource that should get you started.

    https://floridahikes.com/

    How about this?

    https://floridahikes.com/?s=space+coast
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