In societies that exalt youth, like ours, the elderly fall mostly into the second category. They are dispensable, if not a nuisance that is relegated to mortuaries such as nursing homes. A highly visible role in the current pandemic crisis. — David Mo
Even perhaps too explicit I recommend "Torching the Dusties" in Margaret Atwood's Nine Wicked Tales. — David Mo
I don't believe that old age is the age of wisdom, but a progressive advance towards stupidity. This is was Socrates' feeling -despite Plato's version- according Xenophon. This is why he provoked is own death in his famous trial. It is an heterodox consistent version. — David Mo
What your daimon was doing was defending the senatorial power against imperial attacks. — David Mo
how do we get to a modern day standard of measure for 'old age' then subsequently figure out is it a blessing or a curse? — Mayor of Simpleton
I don't think so. Old age means a stiffening of neural connections. How can it mean "wisdom"? It seems contradictory. The myth of the "wisdom" of the elderly rests on a strict patriarchal society that has not existed for a long time. The value of the elderly has plummeted in societies with dismembered families. Including the new Chinese or Korean societies.Does age imply wisdom?
Does youth imply innovation? — Mayor of Simpleton
On what basis can you accept Xenophon's word over Plato's? — magritte
On what basis can you accept Xenophon's word over Plato's? — magritte
It didn't end well. — Ciceronianus the White
We have seen this perfectly when in the current pandemic crisis measures to prevent deaths (of mostly old people) were confronted with the "economy".
Therefore, we could say that the date set to consider someone an old man - with all the indetermination you want - starts around the end of their productive activity. And he is definitely considered old when he needs to become physically dependent on others. — David Mo
I don't think so. Old age means a stiffening of neural connections. How can it mean "wisdom"? It seems contradictory. The myth of the "wisdom" of the elderly rests on a strict patriarchal society that has not existed for a long time. The value of the elderly has plummeted in societies with dismembered families. Including the new Chinese or Korean societies.
I believe that those of us who still value the elderly do so in the name of emotional values. But this kind of value is in disuse in our society of advanced capitalism. We should look at why.
I don't think "rational selfishness", Ayn Rand, etc. are the causes, but the ultimate symptoms of a social illness. — David Mo
No. He underestimated Mark Antony's brutality or preferred to defy death. — David Mo
The point here might well be, the youth are as dependent upon others (parents and community - not only in terms of economic and physical dependency, but also for education) and we are only speculating there is a potential of productivity. — Mayor of Simpleton
Funny thing here is that we totally agree, yet differ in many aspects. Quite curious... — Mayor of Simpleton
What was my contribution and value to the greater good of humanity?' — Mayor of Simpleton
I also find this conversation interesting. — David Mo
When I speak of dependency in the society in which we live, it is of two orders: economic dependency and physical-psychological dependency. — David Mo
Both converge in the inability to carry out productive, paid jobs. — David Mo
Naturally, the limits of dependency are imprecise and conventional. It cannot be otherwise. Like so many other things in our lives. For example, in the society in which we live, household work is productive but unpaid. This includes domestic work - usually covered by women even in 'advanced' societies such as France or Germany - and grandparents caring for grandchildren (it is very common in certain societies and in times of pandemic). — David Mo
Young people have a special status (they are useful even if they are not in paid work) because they represent a medium-term investment. In the same way that a company can pay for some advanced English courses for its executives to improve their performance. Naturally, investing in young people is an overall investment that starts with compulsory education. There is no guarantee that it will be profitable in all cases, but in general. — David Mo
As you say, this is a utilitarian vision of social values. But not just any kind of utilitarianism, but a neo-capitalist (or capitalist, just like that) utilitarianism. We can call it mercantilism. — David Mo
Its main consequence is that it is favouring an exacerbated individualism which goes very well for business - for some - but provokes fractures and social violence against those who are considered "parasites" of society. And this is where the perspectives differ. For capital investors in a society, the workers who do not produce what they want are left over. For young sharks, grandparents are out of place. For the fathers of large families, single mothers are a hindrance. Etc. — David Mo
Compassion and solidarity are banished to new normality. The triumph of the will of power sounds more than with fascism. Maybe we could talk about a new democratic fascism. Reality is full of such oxymorons. — David Mo
Funny thing here is that we totally agree, yet differ in many aspects. Quite curious...
— Mayor of Simpleton
Well, then we don't agree on everything. Fortunately. — David Mo
What was my contribution and value to the greater good of humanity?'
— Mayor of Simpleton
Producing things that are now worth money, a mercantilist would say. What could we say against such an implacable logic? — David Mo
A sick person is only worth when he produces profits for the health industry. In the medieval cities there were mortuaries ("atriums") where the terminally ill were deposited and left to die. (This is not mentioned in Wikipedia ). Old people homes have become "atriums" to eternity now. Arguing with people who deny that "uneconomic" measures are the solution to the coronavirus pandemic, I have heard more than once: "But they don't die from the coronavirus, but because they were sick". In other words, a double reason to let them die: they were old and they were sick.If this were indeed the case, why would such a notion of 'earned/deserved' not bleed over to health issues... making illness also earned/deserved? — Mayor of Simpleton
Business sells us dreams: nostalgia, triumph (sexual and economic), security, feeling of power... And it actively associates them with brands. Now, football teams, T-shirts, food are not football teams, T-shirts or food, they are BRANDS. And there are a lot of fans who are able to spend their money and energy to buy an all-terrain vehicle, a mobile phone or trainers that they don't need. And if you tell him that he is making a fool of himself, he will hate you for the rest of his life, because he doesn't buy things anymore, but BRANDS. Heard over the loudspeaker of a supermarket: "If you like brands, we have..." Read in Murakami's novels: all the characters can be identified by the brands of clothes they wear, the car they drive...I also believe that business has been actively marketing nostalgia. — Mayor of Simpleton
The "gillets jaunes" are not very important. They are the classic outbreaks of social dissatisfaction that can only be expressed by irrational and ephemeral violence. Before they were "anarchists", "Black Block", etc. I think we should look more at the dominant trends that have nothing "left" about them. They are essentially conformists. And I say this with regret because we need a more consistent rebellion.examples like: Mouvement des gilets jaunes - 'yellow vests' - — Mayor of Simpleton
The "gillets jaunes" are not very important. They are the classic outbreaks of social dissatisfaction that can only be expressed by irrational and ephemeral violence. Before they were "anarchists", "Black Block", etc. Scarecrows. I think we should look more at the dominant trends that have nothing "left" about them. They are essentially conformists. And I say this with regret because we need a more consistent rebellion.I always wished to categorize myself as being somewhat apolitical, but that sort of position seems no longer and option. — Mayor of Simpleton
It seems to me that Sinclair Lewis was a better social critic than a novelist, but that also has its merit. (I found the dissection of deep America in Main Street very impressive). I haven't read Babbit, but it will have to be done, I suppose.Go ahead, old man! The world if yours!”
— Babbit — Mayor of Simpleton
A sick person is only worth when he produces profits for the health industry. In the medieval cities there were mortuaries ("atriums") where the terminally ill were deposited and left to die. (This is not mentioned in Wikipedia ). Old people homes have become "atriums" to eternity now. Arguing with people who deny that "uneconomic" measures are the solution to the coronavirus pandemic, I have heard more than once: "But they don't die from the coronavirus, but because they were sick". In other words, a double reason to let them die: they were old and they were sick. — David Mo
But don't doubt that if a laboratory discovers a vaccine it will sell it to us at three times its real price. Then the coronavirus patients will be valuable. — David Mo
Business sells us dreams: nostalgia, triumph (sexual and economic), security, feeling of power... And it actively associates them with brands. Now, football teams, T-shirts, food are not football teams, T-shirts or food, they are BRANDS. And there are a lot of fans who are able to spend their money and energy to buy an all-terrain vehicle, a mobile phone or trainers that they don't need. And if you tell him that he is making a fool of himself, he will hate you for the rest of his life, because he doesn't buy things anymore, but BRANDS. Heard over the loudspeaker of a supermarket: "If you like brands, we have..." Read in Murakami's novels: all the characters can be identified by the brands of clothes they wear, the car they drive...
We are at the beginning of the end of capitalism and the dawn of the corporate system. Which will be worse. I am afraid. — David Mo
I think we should look more at the dominant trends that have nothing "left" about them. They are essentially conformists. And I say this with regret because we need a more consistent rebellion. — David Mo
It seems to me that Sinclair Lewis was a better social critic than a novelist, but that also has its merit. (I found the dissection of deep America in Main Street very impressive). I haven't read Babbit, but it will have to be done, I suppose. — David Mo
- Seeing that we are probably at the beginning of this capitalist expansion, where do you believe it is heading in the future (near or distance)?
- Do you view it as inevitable or is it something that is possible correctable (provided it actually needs correction)? — Mayor of Simpleton
You ask too much to my prediction skills. Santiago Niño-Becerra, a Spanish economist who appears a lot in the media, sets the climax in 2065. I find that suspiciously accurate. The end of capitalism seems to be a true trend, but trends change unexpectedly in history. — David Mo
“Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past". I subscribe to this idea. But I believe that, from what I have seen, the conditions are much stricter than an anarchist soul would like. The problem is to specify them. History is not an exact science. And I am not even a historian. — David Mo
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