tend to the political right — Banno

"Right-wing" has become a pejorative term. Oh! What great times do we live in...

"Right-wing" has become a pejorative term. Oh! What great times do we live in... — Gus Lamarch

It has always been pejorative if you're on the left. But there does seem to be a crisis of progressivism, which ironically has lead to conservatism having nowhere to go but into the abyss of the reactionary and authoritarian.

As the progressives have lost their vision for the future, and turned into managers of the status quo, the conservatives have been forced to either loose all distinctiveness or turn ever more sharply towards the past. And hence, being right wing is becoming more and more a pejorative.

45% think it is necessary to have faith in a God in order to be moral. — Banno

Another 45% think it is necessary to be a registered Democrat, or believe in the myth of white privilege, in order to be moral.

Politics... :roll:

To be moral, you don't have to be anything, except moral,

Progressives? Who are they - the ones voting for an old racist white guy that has been in politics for nearly 50 years?

The REAL progressives are the ones that are sick and tired of the two-party status quo and looking for and voting for alternatives. It can be lonely being a progressive in 2020.

Actually, when someone says he believes in this or that god, he just says that, by his own will, he decided to belong to this or that religious group/system.

Obviously, all in the group, he joined, will see in him a good person (as they see themselves).
I mean, being good is just a man-made notion.

For example, if one kills an enemy of his group, he is not only good... he becomes a hero.
At the same time, on the side of his victim, he is seen as a real evil person... a killer.

Those that think so have a lower income, less education, — Banno

Poor Joe cant afford a lawyer when the cops harass him, so he prays. He cant afford a decent diet or preventative healthcare, so he prays. His children are recruited by gang members and there's nothing he can do about it, so he prays. His wife has become a fentanyl addict and she sells her body on the street, so he prays.

Religion is opium. Opium is medicine for those in pain.

Thus: the way to kill God is not though petty arguments but through a rugged materialism - good lives for all, security of body and community, to each according to their need, from each according to their ability.

Religion is opium. Opium is medicine for those in pain. — frank

Yes, this is why Paganism had to exist before medicine.

Thus: the way to kill God is not though petty arguments but through a rugged materialism - good lives for all, security of body and community, to each according to their need, from each according to their ability. — StreetlightX

:up: :up: :up:

Thus: the way to kill God is not though petty arguments but through a rugged materialism - good lives for all, security of body and community, to each according to their need, from each according to their ability. — StreetlightX

Yes, this is exactly what every living thing does while being guided by the instructions embedded in it already by its maker (the intelligent energy/will behind the existence of our universe).

Doubtless there are those who think so, have a lower income, less education, are older and yet tend to the the political left.

They are just not as common.

I’m terrified of people who are only moral because if they’re not they’ll get punished. It seems that genuine morality is impossible with the constant threat of hell. What will they do if God instructs them to murder and torture I wonder?

...and so infantile; but not developing beyond self-interest has been encouraged by our supposed political leaders for forty years.

I’m terrified of people who are only moral because if they’re not they’ll get punished. It seems that genuine morality is impossible with the constant threat of hell. What will they do if God instructs them to murder and torture I wonder? — khaled

Also, Caesar (equivalent to the today's powerful rich families that run a ruling system) instructs his followers and soldiers to be morale and obedient with him; otherwise he has to punish them. And he also instructs them that they have the right to murder and even torture his enemies who oppose his will.

Now you know how the men in charge of any religion around the around were able to imagine the best image to describe their supernatural kings/gods while playing the legitimate representatives/stewards of their supernatural Caesar.

Like it or not, it's true that belief in god is necessry for being good but only for those who haven't encountered alternatives to divine justice like Karma in Buddhism.

The demographic that's of this view, those who "...have a lower income, less education...", as is evident, belong to the segment of society traditionally viewed as the weak. The weak, for obvious reasons, are the ones deprived of justice at every turn - their powerlessness preventing them from claiming, and/or defending against the infringement of, their basic rights. For the weak, this world, in its current form, is incapable of providing justice to them. For this reason and this reason alone, the weak tend to believe in a god for god is, at least in theory, the perfect judge who'll never allow/tolerate injustice.

Now that I think of it, the powerful too need god if not to shield them from injustice to at least ensure that their privileged status is protected/preserved beyond the grave.

Banno : Those that think so have a lower income, less education, tend to the political right and are older than those who do not.

Quite a generalisation. Is this based on facts and if so can you share where you elicited these facts?
In my humble opinion belief in God is helpful for some in being good. There are non believers who appear morally good people and it is irritating when those people are targeted by believers as the group that will enter Hell with their teeth gnashing etc simply because of their unbelief in God.
If you are not taught about being good why would you believe you are not good.

Oh, my! Here we go again.

'Good' is the stumbling block here. If we define it carefully, chances are that a moral/ethical structure can be established without reference to a supreme entity. There's quite a literature extant.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks. hand washing and social distancing.

Regards, stay safe 'n well. Remember the Big 3: masks. hand washing and social distancing. — Torus34

Yes, also in these days, one is seen good by his ruling system (anywhere on earth) if he believes in the 'worldwide' propaganda concerning the world's flu of this year as being a pandemic; after all it killed about 1 of 10,000 so far.


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Thus: the way to kill God is not though petty arguments but through a rugged materialism - good lives for all, security of body and community, to each according to their need, from each according to their ability. — StreetlightX

The lack of understanding of religion on all the philosophy forums is pretty remarkable.

A socialist utopia would have considerable merit, but it won't change the human condition which is the source of religion.

Religion has thrived in all times and places. What we should learn from that is that religion doesn't arise from particular cultural circumstances. Those circumstances shape the form a particular religion will take, but they are not the source of religion. Thus, changing those circumstances will not end religion.

Bringing religion to an end would require understanding the fundamental human need which gives rise to religion and then providing, at massive scale, some manner of meeting that need which users find more effective than religion.

Good moral judgment is essential. How do people gain good moral judgment?

We have a choice. We can follow 3 simple rules and reduce the spread of the virus and go about our lives almost as normal, or we can ignore the rules and increase the spread of the virus and then deal with lockdowns because there is not enough room in our jails to isolate those who do not follow the rules from those of us who do. I have a strong preference for everyone following the rules that will make this period of time a lot less painful and give me my liberty to be with family and other people important to me. We were so close to a return to normal and the college kids returned to town and ruined everything.

In my book, people who are not considerate of others are not good people.

Bringing religion to an end would require understanding the fundamental human need which gives rise to religion and then providing, at massive scale, some manner of meeting that need which users find more effective than religion. — Hippyhead

In a word, the need is meaning and people best find this for themselves. The necessary cultural shift would be towards the pursuit of meaning rather than materialistic goals and tribal solidarity.

To be moral, you don't have to be anything, except moral, — Harry Hindu

I disagree. To be moral a person must be well informed. A moral is a matter of cause and effect and a person who does not understand cause and effect can not make a moral choice. We used to read folk tales that are moral stories to children and then ask them what is the moral of the story. The answer is a matter of cause and effect.

Religion unfortunately has not prepared anyone to know God (Logos, universal law) nor to make choice choices. It came about before science and the mythology is not compatable with science, resulting in obeying religious books, but not making morally correct decisions. For example Jesus told us not to worry about washing hands, and boy was that misinformation!

What will they do if God instructs them to murder and torture I wonder? — khaled

What do you mean, if? Abraham? Moses?

but not developing beyond self-interest has been encouraged by our supposed political leaders for forty years. — Banno

True dat.

In a word, the need is meaning and people best find this for themselves. The necessary cultural shift would be towards the pursuit of meaning rather than materialistic goals and tribal solidarity. — praxis

So how does a person go about finding meaning? We just meditate or what?

Another way to phrase it is, people believe you need justice and/or law and order ie. belief in very real consequences for one's harmful actions to avoid harm that is not conducive to a diverse and free society. And is it not?

45% think it is necessary to have faith in a God in order to be moral. — Banno

If a person has no belief in God, he can act morally. Yet, morality that is not grounded in principle is relativistic, and a matter of caprice.
So, for such a person to base his morality on principle is quite irrational.

If a person has no belief in God, he can act morally. Yet, for such a person to base his morality on principle is quite irrational, and morality that is not grounded in principle is relativistic, and a matter of caprice. — Merkwurdichliebe

Why would basing morality on principle be quite irrational without God?

Why would basing morality on principle be quite irrational without God? — frank

How is a principle determined? If it is the word of God then that is a for sure the right thing. If it is just what an individual thinks, how can we be sure it is the right thought?