Why suppose it needs to be broken down into instances? — Marchesk
What else could what it's like to drink tea consist of if not each and every instance? — creativesoul
What else could what it's like to drink tea consist of if not each and every instance?
— creativesoul
The continuous experience... — Marchesk
Does this conscious experience consist of quality? — javra
Not on my view, but perhaps on yours it may. What counts as consisting of quality? — creativesoul
Why wouldn't the response just be that there's nothing particularly special about one location over another. Unless location is specific to a question at hand, i.e. the view of a building from a particular place, I don't see how it presents any kind of problem for D.
— Wayfarer
Well, indeed. But I think we could say the same for red apples, or illusions, or whatever. — Andrew M
Daniel Dennett, Darwin’s Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life (New York: Simon and Schuster, 1995), 202-3, quoted by Steve TalbottDennett, in one of his characteristic remarks, assures us that “through the microscope of molecular biology, we get to witness the birth of agency, in the first macromolecules that have enough complexity to ‘do things.’ … There is something alien and vaguely repellent about the quasi-agency we discover at this level — all that purposive hustle and bustle, and yet there’s nobody home.” Then, after describing a marvelous bit of highly organized and seemingly meaningful biological activity, he concludes:
Love it or hate it, phenomena like this exhibit the heart of the power of the Darwinian idea. An impersonal, unreflective, robotic, mindless little scrap of molecular machinery is the ultimate basis of all the agency, and hence meaning, and hence consciousness, in the universe.
I see the subjective experience as the font of all knowledge.
— Olivier5
:up: It was put very well by somebody on another thread, but I can not remember who. It went something like; every experience creates a note, in sequence the notes create a tune - this is what we dance to! I love it :smile: — Pop
Good for you. Can you tell sugar from salt by tasting it? If yes, you have qualia too.I'm by no means denying my senses. I grant them as necessary elemental constituents of all conscious experience. — creativesoul
I take a sip of coffee from my cup, and I taste coffee. That's a relationship between me and the coffee. Phrased generally, that's a perceptual relationship between me and a perceptual stimulus.
Another way of parsing that is that I took a sip of coffee from my cup, and I experienced a coffee taste quale. That's a relationship between me and and the coffee taste quale. — fdrake
Given that we both acknowledge the occurrence of the word "quality" in the English language (you've made use of it), and if in your view conscious experiences do not consist of quality, where does quality take place?
Or is it your view that quality does not take place anywhere, that it has no occurrence, thereby making the term fully meaningless to you? — javra
Which satisfies Dennett's criterion? — creativesoul
Does this conscious experience consist of quality? — javra
Not on my view, but perhaps on yours it may. What counts as consisting of quality? — creativesoul
if in your view conscious experiences do not consist of quality, where does quality take place? — javra
Which satisfies Dennett's criterion? — creativesoul
Some posters here call subjectivity "self-report" and they see it with a great deal of suspicion... — Olivier5
All things ever thought, believed, spoken, written, uttered, and/or otherwise expressed come through a subject. Thus, we must set the notion aside, for it is incapable of being used to draw any further distinction between our differing claims. — creativesoul
Intution pumps 8-12 look like we don't have direct access to previous qualia such that we can answer the question, Just the memory of them. And memories are fallible reconstructions. My memory qualia of tasting the coffee years ago might not be the same as it was when tasting it then. But that doesn't mean there is no qualia when tasting it now. — Marchesk
We can apprehend the world through quality and quantity, hence both of these must exist, at least in our mind. — Olivier5
Why is it only possible under the second model of experience (sensory input->qualia.....then....b)qualia->(via some judgement/assessment)->response)? Are you saying that an intersubjective comparison of qualia would be possible under the first model of experience (sensory input-> response)? — Luke
What use are they for what? Qualia are "the way things seem to us". Why do they need to have a use? — Luke
Aren't you just expressing the hard problem with that question: why do we have qualia if they make no functional difference? — Luke
Can "the way things seem to us" be theoretical? — Luke
Anyway, pumps 7-12 is where most of the "demolition" occurs? — Luke
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