• Benj96
    2.3k
    What is truth? There are many ways to define it. Let’s consider truth with respect to “duration” - that is to say the measure of truth/verifiability of a phenomenon/ state or object is a measure of its duration of existence through time. The more time it exists for the truer it is to the fundamental state of reality/ the universe.

    There are many benefits of considering truth in this way. One would naturally think true things always exist and never change. Scientific Method uses duration of an observation in its “repeatability of experimental result” - the belief that things that are true or correct should be consistent through time and therefore can be measured repeatedly giving the same result.

    However one could also reason that just because something didn’t exist for very long doesn’t negate the fact that it is true. Is it any less true - that is to say had a duration in time - then something that always exists? A fly might land on a specific part of a specific leaf at 10pm on a July day in 2020 and this doesn’t make it any less true that it happened than say the force of gravity which remains constant for much longer.

    This is where verifiability comes in. To verify is to measure with consistency both of measurement and result. To verify that a fly landed on a leaf is easy on the day that it happens. But it is not repeatable. The same fly and the same location are probably not going to happen twice. However one can measure gravity at any moment and will get an acceleration of 9.8m-sqrd/s.

    In a 10,000 years time it’s likely we will not be able to verify the fly landing on a leaf any better than we can verify what the daily life of a human was 10,000 years ago. Whilst it’s likely the force of gravity will be the same as it was 100,000 years ago or 1 million or a billion into the future.

    So if we were to look for ultimate truth. Should we consider everything that we believe may exist eternally? Or should we focus on what we can measure at any instant - the present moment?
  • Sir2u
    3.5k
    What is truth?Benj96

    Are you confusing truth with fact?
  • Benj96
    2.3k
    is a formula not a fact if it is true? Is the truth not revealed by fact? Both in a legal sense and a scientific sense
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    is a formula not a fact if it is true?Benj96

    Your "is" is a problem here. Fact not = True. If it's true then it's a fact that it's true, but that does not make it itself a fact. A distinction of substance and the accident of quality. Obviously there's some overlap in common usage. One sign of a fact is that facts are always historical.
  • Outlander
    2.1k


    So, not all "facts" are true yet all truths are actual facts? Or no? Or do some facts either by design or not exclude or dismiss larger more relevant truths then one may otherwise benefit from in a greater way?

    Example: it's a fact taking something from someone is the quickest way to obtain something. However, a larger truth is that sometimes justice is served and may relinquish said object from you, hence, the truth being it is not the best way. As in, many people believe quicker is better, even if it's not as secure in longevity as other ways, and so, since many people believe quicker is better it can be said it is indeed a "fact" that quicker is better.
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    They're just different things. But again, some people use the terms interchangeably, which is an error. Do you agree they are different things? If you get it, then you've got it. If not, maybe there's more to be said.
  • Outlander
    2.1k
    Do you agree they are different things?tim wood

    I agree people say things as both that are actually neither. I suppose it does come down to semantics doesn't it? What do you think?
  • tim wood
    9.3k
    Do you understand that facts are always historical facts? It takes some getting used to. The statement of a truth may be an historical fact, but the truth stated is not. 2+2=4 is true. That it is stated, if and when it is stated, is a fact.

    I am also inclined think that truth is a priori, but facts are empirical and contingent - but this gets complicated and likely not worth the effort.
  • Benj96
    2.3k
    One sign of a fact is that facts are always historical.tim wood

    “Energy will still act/occur tomorrow” or “a photon will travel between two stars some time from now” or “an hour will pass three days from now” or “history will be made” are these not facts about the future dictated by a conservation law or logic of the past or present?

    Facts are not always historical. That would mean that nothing in the present moment is a fact because it isn’t historical it’s present. Then tell me what exactly you’re experiencing right now because it sure isn’t the past but your experience is no less a fact of your experience. I could tell you the statements above at any moment in my life and or yours or anyone else’s and their logic will still apply no?
  • Relativist
    2.6k
    I think it's just a matter of accepting that some truths are time-indexed, like:

    John attended Reagan Elementary school from September 1960 through May 1968.

    To be true, the truthmaker (or correspondence) needs to exist somewhere in spacetime.
  • Sir2u
    3.5k
    is a formula not a fact if it is true? Is the truth not revealed by fact?Benj96

    I love my wife, that is a fact, but the truth depends upon the definition of love does it not.

    As in, many people believe quicker is better,Outlander

    That may be true for a person that wants things, a lady of the night would certainly agree with you. But just ask the missus for her idea of the truth.

    Facts are not always historical. That would mean that nothing in the present moment is a fact because it isn’t historical it’s present.Benj96

    The sun is shining would be a fact, if indeed it is shining at the present moment. Ask the weatherman if the sun will shine tomorrow. Of course it will he will answer, somewhere.

    Facts are always historical, but not all of history is fact.

    Please tell me one future fact.
    Example: Trump will leave the White House sometime next year.
    Is this the truth? Yes, because the public decided his sorry ass needed to be kicked out.
    Is it a fact? Who knows. Maybe he will buy the bloody thing.
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