the pregnant mother will also have to experience extreme pain, permanent body damage, expensive medical bills and a small possibility of death — TheHedoMinimalist
Sleepwalking is non intentional. Normal pregnancy outside of .. "coerced measures" is. So. No. lol — Outlander
However, killing in self-defense is only permissible when there's a threat to life and that seems to be missing from your list of undesirable consequences for the mother. By the way, to my knowledge, current practice allows the termination of pregnancies when there's a risk to the mother's life. Thank you again for opening up a new front in this pitched battle between pro-lifers and pro-choicers. Excellent! — TheMadFool
Defense against children, mentally ill or otherwise disabled persons can be classed under self-defense, but the rules that apply are usually different. Strict proportionality will apply, with perhaps duties to avoid conflict as far as possible. None of that seems to be of much help to shed light on the abortion discussion though. — Echarmion
That’s like saying that if I accidentally hit someone with my car that I did so intentionally just because I chose to drive a car that day. — TheHedoMinimalist
not. A person, male or female, who is not under the influence of debilitating substances, who is not physically forced or coerced, and is aware of the fact that sexual relations produces kids, is literally what defines a legal adult, de facto of course. — Outlander
Can you explain to me the concept of strict proportionality? Does it mean that you cannot harm someone in self-defense more than he will likely harm you if you didn’t take the self-defense measure? — TheHedoMinimalist
No, it's not. A person, male or female, who is not under the influence of debilitating substances, who is not physically forced or coerced, and is aware of the fact that sexual relations produces kids, is literally what defines a legal adult, de facto of course. — Outlander
This doesn’t entail that everyone should always be responsible for killing someone while driving their car so why should someone always be held responsible for a pregnancy simply because they chose to have sex? — TheHedoMinimalist
The measures used will usually also have to be in the same ballpark as the threat, so no responding to theft with deadly force. — Echarmion
Responsibility is kind of an odd concept to use here, I think, because responsibility is usually to someone. Responsibilities occur in relations, they define obligations and duties (or the lack thereof, as with the common use of "responsible adult") between people. But what would responsibility for pregnancy entail? — Echarmion
So, suppose that someone responds with lethal force towards another because it was the only way to avoid experiencing extreme physical pain. Would you say that this constitutes strict proportionality? — TheHedoMinimalist
is aware of the fact that sexual relations produces kids — Outlander
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