Trump is now basically Biden 2.0. — Mikie

That sums it up.

NATO has dug a nice hole for Ukraine.

:lol: Case in point.

That sums it up.

NATO has dug a nice hole for Ukraine. — Tzeentch

Yes indeed. What’s funny is that those in the US have been fed a line of bullshit for 3 years with claims that Ukraine was holding Russia back or even “winning.”

FYI, contours of NATO polls in Ukraine by various sources:



Some related events in rough chronological order:

Budapest Memorandum: signed 1994 Dec 5 — violated 2014 Feb
Euromaidan: 2013 Nov 21 — 2014 Feb 22
Revolution of Dignity: 2014 Feb 18 — 2014 Feb 23
Little green men incursion: 2014 Feb
Russo-Ukrainian War: 2014 Feb —
Russian occupation of Crimea: 2014 Feb 27 —
Russian annexation of Crimea: 2014 Mar 18
Donbas War: 2014 Apr 12 — 2022 Feb 24
Ukrainian parliamentary election interference: 2014 Oct
Russia demands NATO roll back from East Europe and stay out of Ukraine: 2021 Dec 17
Special military operation: 2022 Feb 24 —

The Kremlin has been exemplary in giving Ukraine incentive to keep seeking NATO membership, however unlikely in the foreseeable future.

The Kremlin has been exemplary in giving Ukraine incentive to keep seeking NATO membership, however unlikely in the foreseeable future. — jorndoe

Sure— they invaded their country. That’s pretty good incentive.

More orangy claims from the orange president:
Trump pledges weapons for Ukraine, threatens secondary tariffs on Russia
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-administration/live-blog/trump-patriot-missiles-ukraine-russia-immigration-tariffs-live-updates-rcna218469
And despite the fact that Putin has already won the war as every "smart" people in this thread - namely those who love to smell their own intellectual farts - knows.

I'm guessing the US is a couple of Trump'ers shorter. Russia is a cannon-fodder richer.

American Joins Russian Army For Citizenship, Gets A Big Surprise Instead
^{— Ed Scarce · Crooks and Liars · Jul 15, 2025}

Specifically, DeAnna referenced LGBT material being taught to their children in schools as motivation for moving out of the US.

American Father and Vlogger Tricked Into Front Line Combat by Russia
^{— Nick Pehlman · Kyiv Post · Jul 15, 2025}

Unfortunately, he feels like he is being thrown to the wolves right now, and he is kind of having to lean on faith. — DeAnna Huffman

Importing North Korean soldiers, sending non-soldiers to war, ..., maybe they are running low.

Burney plain-opines:

Derek Burney: Disillusioned Trump tries to talk tough on Ukraine
^{— Derek H Burney · National Post · Jul 23, 2025}

Muscovites opine:

Mixed reactions in Russia after Trump comments on military aid for Ukraine
^{— AP Archive · Jul 19, 2025 · 47s}



I'll just echo Kallas: too much babble and delaying while Ukraine is bombed daily. I guess they're used to getting sh¦t all over by now.

Ukraine sees first major anti-government protests since start of war, as Zelensky moves to weaken anti-corruption agencies
https://edition.cnn.com/2025/07/23/europe/ukraine-corruption-agencies-protests-intl

Some oil trade have changed over the past three years:

How the Largest Importers of Russian Fossil Fuels Have Changed (2022 vs. 2025)
^{— Bruno Venditti, Sam Parker · Visual Capitalist · Apr 1, 2025}

A nice graph to show how Russia hasn't suffered one bit, and the EU has been played like a bunch of fools.

, I don't think it's a concluded story. I guess we'll see.

New EU Russia curbs may bolster Indian oil refiners' reliance on traders
^{— Nidhi Verma, Mohi Narayan, Trixie Sher Li Yap, Florence Tan, Tony Munroe, Jan Harvey · Reuters · Jul 21, 2025}

Exclusive: Indian state refiners pause Russian oil purchases, sources say
^{— Nidhi Verma, Philippa Fletcher · Reuters · Jul 31, 2025}

Besides, Europe pretending "business as usual" sends the wrong message.

More on Baiden 2.0 provoking innocent Russia which has already won the war since day one as everybody knows:
Trump, escalating war of words with Russia’s Medvedev, mobilizes two nuclear submarines
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/01/trump-escalating-war-of-words-with-russias-medvedev-mobilizes-two-nuclear-submarines-00488493

This war is over. Ukraine can fight on and lose more lives, and Trump can blow smoke about it all, but Russia will keep the territory it stole. Sanctions and threats will do nothing. As we see with India, who will continue to buy Russian oil.

Did Moscow get hit by a heatwave or something?

The children of Severomorsk are told that neighbouring Nordic countries support Nazism
^{— The Barents Observer · 2025 Apr 15}

Moscow threatens to DESTROY Europe: nuclear blackmail, calls for war, and strikes on NATO
^{— UATV English · 2025 Aug 6 · 9m:18s}


We want Ukraine, as a state, to cease to exist [...]
^{— Bezpalko Bogdan Anatolievich via Visioner · 2025 Aug 7 · 1m:57s}

Seems clear that all this...stuff is for a domestic audience.

This war is over. Ukraine can fight on and lose more lives, and Trump can blow smoke about it all, but Russia will keep the territory it stole. Sanctions and threats will do nothing. As we see with India, who will continue to buy Russian oil. — Mikie

There's already been one attempted coup in Russia. How do you know another's not brewing? Russia recently surpassed a million casualties and 200,000+ KIA. That's over 10x what they lost in Afghanistan and they eventually gave up on it. It's not a bad bet for Ukraine to be thinking Russia will lose the appetite for this military adventure as well.

What’s the ideological point of declaring a war over when armies are still fighting, people are still dying and no agreement even over a truce has ever been achieved?
What moral authority do such comments have, coming from those who haven’t been involved, towards those who have skin in the game?
What intellectual depth can there be in remarks that overlook the complexities of international collective dynamics and the long-term strategies of political leaders?

People can find ways of convincing themselves of anything. It’s partly how casinos work. Wishful thinking. And of course there’s usually a modicum of truth — like the fact that someone usually wins the lottery, etc.

But this war is over. Not technically, since they’re still fighting— but for all intents and purposes, it’s over. Barring some miracle, Ukraine will come out with a crappy deal. No one said life is fair.

This Trump-Putin summit that's been announced, likely to be in Alaska. Ukraine won't be represented, and Trump is already saying there will need to be some 'land swaps' - meaning Ukraine will need to agree to cede some of the invaded territory. I'm sure that Ukraine won't agree to do that, on principle. So at that point, what are the odds that Trump will say that Ukraine is obstructing peace, and walk away from the whole situation?

My only faint hope is that there are influential Ukraine hawks in the GOP who might prevent this scenario. But Trump is well-known for repeating the lines the last person who spoke to him has fed him. So after meeting with Putin, who Trump still seems enamoured with, despite his recent change of mood, that is the risk. He'll be outplayed by Putin, to Ukraine's' disadvantage.

Facts on the ground in Ukraine do not settle political matters. Land grabbing is a political issue worldwide and occurs in many regions where American national interests are involved, such as in the cases of Palestine and Taiwan. Acknowledging land grabbing would severely undermine the Westphalian principle of territorial sovereignty, which underpins international relations among modern states. So any fallout of what happens in one region can impact other regional conflicts as far as territorial sovereignty is concerned.
However what I also find worth highlighting is that in Ukraine the political issue arises from the clash between Ukrainian nationalism and Russian imperialism. In Palestine, the conflict is between two nationalisms, the Israeli and the Palestinian. In Asia, the conflict is between Chinese imperialism and Taiwanese nationalism.

He'll be outplayed by Putin, to Ukraine's' disadvantage. — Wayfarer

Yep. But he’s inadvertently advocating for a solution which may end the war. Of course Ukraine won’t agree— but to expect Russia to give up the territory it’s gained is also ludicrous.

I don’t see any real deal being made here.

It'll be more egg on the Emperor's face if no deal is reached, and Trump is going to have to shift the blame, as he always does. Anyway - let's see.

He’ll blame Zelensky for not taking the “Great deal.”

Yeah that’s what I’m scared of. I think I made that prediction in this thread about 6 months ago.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/08/09/europe/trump-putin-summit-analysis-2-intl?cid=ios_app

He’ll blame Zelensky for not taking the “Great deal.” — Mikie

He wouldn't be entirely wrong.

Genuinely, what reason is there to continue fighting? What could Ukraine possibly gain that would improve their bargaining positioning?

When a war is objectively lost, it's up to the leaders of the country to bite the bullet and ensure their soldiers aren't sacrificing their lives in vain.

It's very sour for Ukraine to be put in this situation by same the country that promised so much and delivered so little, but that's US foreign policy for you. Ukraine brought in a tiger to keep out the wolves.

He wouldn't be entirely wrong.

Genuinely, what reason is there to continue fighting? What could Ukraine possibly gain that would improve their bargaining positioning? — Tzeentch

Good point. But it’s still a hard pill to swallow for many Ukrainians. And I understand that.

Wouldn't be the first time anyway ...

Putin’s warlord ally flying migrants into Europe (via yahoo)
^{— Joe Barnes · The Telegraph · Aug 9, 2025}

Not the only kind of hostility (has come up before in the thread). Nice peaceful people, eh?

It's understandable from the perspective of the Ukrainian people, but political leaders in war have to deal with reality, even if it potentially means the end of their political careers.

If they are unable to set aside emotions, they're setting themselves up to be sidelined, making things even worse.

Let's see how the talks in Alaska will go.

Not very hopeful as Trump is a very lousy deal maker, and there's still the possibility that Trump pushes Ukraine to a lousy deal and gives everything on a platter to Putin. Not likely, but still a possibility.

Wouldn't be the first time anyway ... — jorndoe

But wouldn't hit the soft spot anymore. Europeans don't take anymore the bullshit tactics as they did earlier.

Pulling support for Ukraine and Israel would be fantastic. Trump so far has done neither.

As stupid and ignorant and as a major loser as he is, ending these wars or support for them is (in his case, accidentally) a good thing.