• Erasmus Whitaker
    16
    Let me preface this by saying I am not an expert by any means, this is simply my worldview that I would like to share and see what people, perhaps people who ARE experts, or who perhaps have more expertise and knowledge than I, to respond to.

    I am a 19 year old guy who grew up as an only child in a household where my parents were older (my mother is in her mid 50s and my father in his early 60s as of now) and perhaps initially just felt no love for each other, but in more recent years grew to outright hate each other but have not divorced or separated in any way other than sleeping in separate rooms. Both of my parents were poor growing up, but have both managed to work themselves into the middle or upper middle class. My parents (mostly my mother as my father isn't a very active parent) always stressed to me the importance of school and/or work coming before everything else, and I mean everything without exaggeration. Now I wouldn't call myself a hopeless romantic but I have always had a very strong desire for a committed intimate relationship. And my parents always scolded me for taking my relationships so seriously at such a young age. But through my parents past and I suppose the environment I grew up in, I learned to think differently. One of the major turning points in the development of my worldview was the death of my grandmother. I saw her in the hospital the day before she died, eyes glazed over, mouth open gasping for each breath, but when she went she was surrounded by my cousins whom she raised, my two uncles and my mother. And I thought, is that not all we can ask for with death as the only certainty in life? That was we pass we may be surrounded by those we love. Because of course, getting an education and a job is important, but if we forsake forming bonds in order to focus entirely on getting ahead in life, when we finally achieve that goal, how much time will be left? Would you have to desperately rush into a relationship as my parents did when you realize there is a such thing as too late? Or should you simply hope that when the end comes being surrounded by all of your trophies will be of some comfort?

  • BuxtebuddhaAccepted Answer
    1.7k
    Thanks for sharing a little of your life, Eric (Y)

    if we forsake forming bonds in order to focus entirely on getting ahead in life, when we finally achieve that goal, how much time will be left?Eric Wintjen

    Depends on what getting ahead in life means to "you." If it's just getting a career and making lots of money, then that's not really getting ahead, in a moral sense, unless your career, say, is something that directly benefits and strengthens people's lives. In that case, though, you probably wouldn't care about the money, so in effect you're getting ahead in a career and, presumably, fostering intimate relationships with others, either platonic or romantic. But again, if you're just trying for the money, or the prestige, or whatever else, then you're not doing what really matters, which I do this is forming bonds with others, as you say. If you're looking for a word to describe what is meaningful, it's love.

    With regard to your parents, I think they must have loved each other in some capacity at some point, so perhaps they both made careers for themselves and made an intimate relationship work for a period of time.

    Would you have to desperately rush into a relationship as my parents did when you realize there is a such thing as too late?Eric Wintjen

    Are you asking whether there is such a thing as being too late with having intimate relationships? I'd, again, pull back a bit and say that I don't think love can ever be too late to foster. It's never too late to do good, to help carry another's suffering and burdens in life. I am perhaps similar to you in many ways, and that I wonder about intimate friendships and romantic relationships and whether there's a timer on them, but I'm currently of a mind that love, if meant to be, will transpire as it happens. That said, love can also erode, like between your parents it would seem.

    Perhaps you could wonder after what your mother, and father, might say to Tennyson's famous, "tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." Indeed, you could wonder too, perhaps again if you've come across this line before.
  • Erasmus Whitaker
    16
    @Buxtebuddha
    I'd, again, pull back a bit and say that I don't think love can ever be too late to foster. It's never too late to do good, to help carry another's suffering and burdens in life

    I said this with the idea that having children and creating a family is an important part of creating and strengthening bonds which is of course an idea up for debate, and there is a biological timer on reproduction.
  • BC
    13.6k
    There is a timer on reproduction -- more for women, but also for men. you have a few years before you have to worry about it.

    Welcome to The Philosophy Forum.

    Because of course, getting an education and a job is important, but if we forsake forming bonds in order to focus entirely on getting ahead in life, when we finally achieve that goal, how much time will be left?Eric Wintjen

    You can, of course, look for your mate while you are getting an education. After all, women in college are also looking for mates. Then, many couples start out relatively poor and develop their careers, have children, and in time reach their plateaus of earning, hopefully not too long before retirement (which is probably 50 years into the future, IF all goes according to plan).

    As for your parents...

    They didn't know how things were going to work out when they met each other. Nobody does. Relationships follow many different plots, sometimes ones which nobody wanted. But... that's life for you.

    Love as much as you can.
    Put 'being' before 'achieving'
    and do good work.
  • apokrisis
    7.3k
    What people say at the other end of life, on their death bed, should be a pretty sound guide.

    1. I wish I'd had the courage to live a life true to myself, not the life others expected of me.
    2. I wish I hadn't worked so hard.
    3. I wish I'd had the courage to express my feelings.
    4. I wish I had stayed in touch with my friends.
    5. I wish that I had let myself be happier.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2012/feb/01/top-five-regrets-of-the-dying
  • mcdoodle
    1.1k
    ...if we forsake forming bonds in order to focus entirely on getting ahead in life...Eric Wintjen

    There's no necessary relationship between (not) forming bonds and getting ahead in life. If you pursue your education and fail to make bonds in the process, you are doing the education wrong. Other people will make a pleasant and rewarding difference, even if you don't want to have sex with them. I'm 68, and walk every week with a bloke I shared a room with in college when I was 19. On a Friday I play bridge with a woman I've known since I was 20, when she married my schoolfriend. Some relationships around you are going to turn into bonds like this, which will be profound and rewarding, when you end up knowing someone for nigh-on fifty years.
  • Jake Tarragon
    341
    a pretty sound guideapokrisis

    Indeed. That list would form a very sound basis for a new humanist political party IMO
    1. Freedom of choice of economic lifestyle on the work-consume spectrum
    2. see above
    3. Make education all about personal growth, not competition
    4. errrrrr dunno about that one actually, neutral I guess
    5. Make happiness the utility function and ethos of culture and government , not GNP.

    Winning slogan : Don't wait till you're dying, vote Democratic Humanist Today!
  • Buxtebuddha
    1.7k
    I said this with the idea that having children and creating a family is an important part of creating and strengthening bonds which is of course an idea up for debate, and there is a biological timer on reproduction.Eric Wintjen

    Having children may create stronger bonds between people, but you don't need to procreate in order to make intimate bonds with others...right?
  • Buxtebuddha
    1.7k
    If you pursue your education and fail to make bonds in the process, you are doing the education wrong. I'm 68mcdoodle

    Really showing your age here, doodley.
  • Brian
    88
    getting an education and a job is important, but if we forsake forming bonds in order to focus entirely on getting ahead in life, when we finally achieve that goal, how much time will be left? Would you have to desperately rush into a relationship as my parents did when you realize there is a such thing as too late? Or should you simply hope that when the end comes being surrounded by all of your trophies will be of some comfort?Eric Wintjen

    I would basically agree with the argument that relationships are primary for a flourishing life and achievements and property are definitely secondary. Study after study shows the social bonds are the most important factor for human happiness. And since happiness and or a flourishing life is generally our overarching goal, taking the most direct and efficacious route there makes a lot of sense.

    Rushing a romantic relationship can be OK, but I would not rush into marriage because of all the legal ramifications that separating engenders.
  • Brian
    88
    Having children may create stronger bonds between people, but you don't need to procreate in order to make intimate bonds with others...right?[/quote]

    Certainly you do not. And to be frank I've heard that having a child puts a lot more stress and difficulty on a relationship or on marriage.
    Buxtebuddha
  • mcdoodle
    1.1k
    Really showing your age here, doodley.Buxtebuddha

    I'd have said I was flaunting it, buddie.
  • Michael Ossipoff
    1.7k


    Certainly there are lots of parents who shouldn't be allowed to be parents. And that usually has nothing to do with their relationship with eachother, but rather with their relationship to their children, and their (lack of) qualification for caring for children.

    Of course there's the problem of who should have the authority to deny some people the privilege of creating and rearing children.

    I, myself, don't believe that there's any solution to the things that are societally wrong, or that a good society is possible.

    Michael Ossipoff
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