Please consider an alternative foundation from which solutions to humanity's problems might be solved. A foundation that is not based on philosophy, religion, politics or science. A foundation based on a fundamental understanding of systems, a definition of a system from first principles. A definition that provides for a classifications of systems that provides a theory of evolution without any tautologies and which solve the demarcation problem. An understanding that clearly shows that the emergence of wealth preceded the evolution of modern Homo sapiens. — Pieter R van Wyk
You claim to offer a foundation from which solutions to humanity's problems might be solved and then proceed to describe this foundation in an obfuscating manner. — praxis
Snake oil salesmen have always been part and parcel of humanity's problems. — praxis
You certainly seem to be obfuscated, my foundation is an understanding of systems (something, it would seem, you have no understanding of), defined from first principles - founded on the "... basic, seminal, fundamental, primordial truth of the existence of physical things ... If we cannot agree on this, that physical things exist in fact; our only option would be somewhere between the philosophical areas ... called nihilism and fatalism. And, for sure, solutions to our problems cannot and will not be found in these areas." p9 How I Understand Things. The Logic of Existence - words in italic (from the quote) is defined unambiguously! — Pieter R van Wyk
Don’t you believe that it would be good if I did understand it? — praxis
Is it that only an elite class of people are capable of understand (sic) it? — praxis
Also, you say that solutions might be found from this foundation. Aren’t humanity’s problems important enough to present a foundation that you have more confidence in? — praxis
... which frankly I would not read even if you paid me at this point ... — I like sushi
The question that I claim to have found an answer to is: Is there a different foundation from which answers, to this question (why are all these problems so pervasive and seemingly unsolvable) and these problems (poverty and war), could be sought. I claim the answer is in a general systems theory deduced from first principles — Pieter R van Wyk
The only thing that I ask from any "astute reader" is an agreement on the perception of the conditional truth that physical things (the things consisting of mass or energy) exist. All my understanding follows from this assumption. — Pieter R van Wyk
If philosophy could not arrive at a better understanding of "human nature", an understanding that would render a better chance for solving humanity's problems, then it is high time that we consider a different understanding. — Pieter R van Wyk
I have confidence in my work but it needs to be stress-tested. That is why I am looking for an "astute reader" that could help me find a possible "fatal flaw" in my reasoning. The statement that I posted in my introduction is only part of my problem statement, in an effort to solicit some stress-testing of my work. — Pieter R van Wyk
Frankly, it appears that you're looking for an 'obtuse buyer' of your book and that's why you avoid openly discussing its contents. — praxis
From there I build a theory which is absolutely a work in progress, but I can't get anybody to go deeper than the initial premise because most just want to talk about human morality. — Philosophim
There are those who arrive with their Philosophy, and expound it at length, explaining The Way The World Is, to the benefit of every one of the unenlightened. They often seem shocked into incomprehension when someone comes back with a quibble about how their story doesn’t quite follow, contradicts itself, doesn’t match what is plain to all, or derives an “ought” from an “is”. They will complain of straw men, of trolling, or simply of rudeness, apparently being astonished that folk could be so discourteous as to be critical of their work. — Banno
As the dictionary noted, Philosophy is the "study" of Nature, including human nature. And it has produced many "theories" for thinking about the problems you listed. But human culture has also developed Religion and Science to do something "practical" about our problems.↪Wayfarer
I am not blaming, merely asking a question. According to the Oxford Dictionary, philosophy is:
1. the study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence.
2. the study of the theoretical basis of a branch of knowledge or experience.
3. a theory or attitude that guides one's behaviour.
So, after 2,600 years of this study we still have armed conflict, poverty and hunger, we are destroying our own environment and we are somehow on the verge of being taken over by artificial intelligence. Why is that?
You mention "unruly human nature" - so, do we accept that the "human nature" that has been studied for this 2,600 years is in fact strife, civil disobedience, revolution and war? — Pieter R van Wyk
I too, have no training as a philosopher, and most of my relevant reading prior to retirement has been in the empirical sciences : especially Quantum Physics and Information Theory. But I do "wonder" about non-empirical problems & "why?" questions. So, my retirement hobby is to explore the practical & theoretical implications of my personal worldview*2, which is explained in a website and blog*3.Thank you for the invitation to join this forum. I am joining with some trepidation - I am not a philosopher and I have not any formal qualification in philosophy. But then, according to Jostein Gaarder in 'Sophie's World' - "...the only thing we require to be good philosophers is the faculty of wonder ..." I also have to admit that I do not speak any of the peculiar languages 'ology', 'ism' and such, I prefer plain English.
The Problem, from my "faculty of wonder": For more than 2,600 years philosophers has studied and contributed to our knowledge and understanding but we still suffer from strife, civil disobedience, revolution, and war. "The only results I see from philosophy are a world in which we are: unable to have peace, unable to eradicate poverty and hunger, and a world in which a well-balanced coexistence with our environment and among ourselves is but a pipedream!" (from How I Understand Things. The Logic of Existence). Why is this? — Pieter R van Wyk
They will complain of straw men, of trolling, or simply of rudeness, apparently being astonished that folk could be so discourteous … — Banno
Who needs enlightenment when you’ve got freshly popped popcorn and a good seat in the cave. — praxis
Note --- If we can't understand the world conceptually, and put it into words, do you think we can only explore the world system experientially, via meditation or drugs? — Gnomon
Note --- Again, this "argument" seems to dismiss rational Western Philosophy as incapable of dealing with the ontological problems of humanity. Are you recommending something like Sartre's "being-in-itself" or the spiritual awakening of Ram Dass : "Be Here Now"? — Gnomon
Note --- My own amateur personal philosophy questions both "established" philosophical concepts, and "classical" concepts of Newtonian Physics. — Gnomon
Note --- I don't know if my Information-theoretic worldview provides a "more fundamental understanding of being", but it is certainly different from both traditional religious & scientific ideologies. If your responses seem encouraging, I may even attempt to read your book. — Gnomon
Hopefully, semi-sentient but heartless AI will be able to scan your words, and summarize them, without a personal agenda, to warp your intended meaning. Unfortunately, I can't say the same for my own understanding of "the problem" with analytical philosophy. I may have opinions of my own.Your *1 Thank you for putting this on this forum. The one issue I have is that the responses you quote (Core argument, Beyond conceptualisation, ...) is generated by artificial intelligence, which is (currently still) incapable of abstract thought. I will address your notes: — Pieter R van Wyk
For those of us on the outside, can you summarize your “System”, and its Principles, in a single paragraph? If so, I may be able to determine if it is A> of interest to me, and B> within my range to understand. However, due to my own limitations & flaws, I may or may not be able to discern the "fatal flaw" in your reasoning. I'm currently reading a large book on a similar controversial topic : "to expose the fallacies of some of our culture's deepest metaphysical convictions". So I may not be able to get into your book for a while. :meh:I propose an understanding that is NOT based on 2,600 years of philosophical endeavour BUT on a fundamental, deduced from 'first principles', definition of a system - now looking for a possible fatal flaw in my reasoning. — Pieter R van Wyk
The “demarcation problem” is a struggle to distinguish between Science and Pseudoscience. And I don't have a simple solution. Sometimes today's Woo becomes tomorrow's Wow! : e.g. Plate Tectonics & Germ Theory. Those conjectures were only accepted after they were defined in enough detail to fit a puzzle piece into the whole picture. Can you express your "solution" in a single sentence? :wink:Very valid questions, but easily resolved with a valid solution to the "demarcation problem" in philosophy. — Pieter R van Wyk
I define Laws of Nature simply as “limitations on change”. No ethical implications intended ; unless you imagine those laws as discriminating between Good & Evil, from the perspective of the Programmer. From my cog-in-the-works perspective, they simply steer the evolving cosmos in the direction of Time's Arrow. :nerd:I have started reading some of your musings on 'enformationism' - my first response is: be very careful of what I call a "philosophical trap", you only end up with oxymorons like "ethics of science". "The Laws of Nature have no morality, no honour nor any legal standing." — Pieter R van Wyk
What you call General Systems Theory may be what Jan Smuts encapsulated as Holism. Which is one of the basic principles of my own thesis. It's fundamental to my worldview. :cool:The question that I claim to have found an answer to is: Is there a different foundation from which answers, to this question (why are all these problems so pervasive and seemingly unsolvable) and these problems (poverty and war), could be sought. I claim the answer is in a general systems theory deduced from first principles. — Pieter R van Wyk
is simply philosophical musings used and misused by politicians in order to motivate the decisions they are selling to the hoi polloi.discriminating between Good & Evil — Gnomon
but that can only be determined by you yourself.if it is A> of interest to me — Gnomon
Yes. That's one way to describe the notion of Holism. Systems Theory was developed --- by Bertallanffy, et al --- primarily for pragmatic scientific or engineering purposes. But Holism was intended by Jan Smuts mostly for philosophical applications, such as understanding the Hows & Whys of natural Evolution. Here's my own definition of Holism :"System := Components (things that are) and the interactions between these components (things that happen), contributing to a single unique purpose." p27, p135 — Pieter R van Wyk
I assume that instead of "collection" you meant "connection". Physically, a "demarcation meridian" is simply a point of reference for defining boundaries. But I suppose your DM is a philosophical assertion that Natural & Cultural laws are categorically distinct, with no overlap, no connection. But how does that "solve" the problem of distinguishing between Science and Pseudoscience? Are you saying that Science is natural (hence factual) and Pseudoscience is cultural (hence imaginary or counterfactual)? That seems to be merely a restatement of the problem, not a solution. :wink:"The Demarcation Meridian then states that there exist no shared collection between the Rules of Man and the Laws of Nature" p69 Solving the demarcation problem. — Pieter R van Wyk
Yes. Reductionism is basically the Scientific Method devised in the 17th century. That's a practical way for humans to break Nature down into analytically understandable puzzle pieces. But 20th century Holism is a Philosophical method --- "a logic of understanding" --- for viewing a collection of entangled holons as integral & functional parts of an interacting System, with novel functions of its own. :nerd:I can even tell you that holism and reductionism is simply two sides of the same coin. "It (my systems theory) describes a logic of understanding any part of a whole and any whole as a part." — Pieter R van Wyk
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