I completely understand why you could see it that way. However my point isn't about material over character. That was only meant to be an example.Rich people and poor people are socially equal because, while rich people have many material advantages, poor people have a better chance of building good character. — T Clark
Another way to think of it is a cost benefit analysis, to a rich person getting even a couple thousand dollars for their time is ludicrous, but for others they work for even less. I am trying to look past the personal for a different meaning. — Red Sky
I thought that this might have been a common idea, but I just didn't really have an support for that idea.If the idea is simply that our external situation (whatever it might be) isn't inherently bad, but rather it's how we choose to view it that determines this, that's a fairly common perspective, often derived from Stoicism. — Tom Storm
What I meant by a different meaning was a lack of meaning, and with that lack of meaning equality. And for the abstraction that transcends lived experience being undesirable, of course it would be. I have decided to put my own values on life going forward while considering multiple views. I think it is important to put the fact that this life being equal is only true while being completely objective. Additionally, I think it is important to live personally, or at least to your own values.But human meaning is entirely context-dependent and situational. To try and turn meaning into an abstraction which transcends lived experience would seem fraught. — Tom Storm
Life is absolutely equal — Red Sky
everything is subjective — Red Sky
I'm not sure what your point is. — Tom Storm
I can understand your position on land, however I am trying to state that it is our own values that give quality. I will admit that my example with rich vs poor was well poor.No, everything is not subjective and life is not absolutely equal. There IS an objective reality. If everything was subjective, how would we begin to cooperate and build a society? Some land is objectively better than other land. — BC
Probably is, however I think it is important to state that these are my own thoughts and not that of others.Smells like nihilism to me, OP. — Outlander
That is a mighty example you used, and a dangerous one. I am going to avoid the Holocaust example.Like I mean, unless I'm wrong, OP would suggest being born into a time period and family where that individual ended up going through the Holocaust "has it's benefits"... and even beyond that, is "no different" than if that person was instead born into a rich family not affected by the war at all and only benefited from it. That's a bit of a "hard sell" to me, to put it lightly, but, I'll let OP answer that. If he would like. — Outlander
That is a mighty example you used, and a dangerous one. — Red Sky
The basis of my argument is quite bad. — Red Sky
Say if you were to die, anyone with normal values would consider it bad. However what about a person who committed suicide, they might consider it good. Now there is a difference in the values. Is it truly better to be dead or alive? Without answering that question we couldn't say dying early is better than dying late. — Red Sky
If you were to value life, dying would be bad, but without those values... is there a truth? — Red Sky
how do we know a value is correct? Is there a way? Or do we all just have to hold our own values through life unknowingly? — Red Sky
Cannot disagree with that.Not anymore so than the claim of which spawned it, I'd say. — Outlander
I would agree with and to that.It just seems a bit unsound from how I process it in my own head. Not bad. Just, in need of refinement. Perhaps we can do so together? :smile: — Outlander
Like you have said it is unrefined, but I would say something similar to that. The parts with capacity of the human mind is something beyond my original thoughts. I think it would be hard to find that line. The thing is that I have a basic understanding that is coming from my own thoughts, but putting that into words is harder than I thought.So basically, people have different opinions when it comes to large existential concepts outside of the reasonable capacity of the average mind and no one person's opinion on such topics can be more right or wrong than the other, is what I gather you're suggesting. Is that right? — Outlander
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