You can't tell people that their behavior is determined by things other than their own selves and then admonish them for not determining their own behavior. You can't have it both ways. — WISDOMfromPO-MO

Hey wisdomfrompomo. I think the answer probably lies somewhere in between; limited free will. We can't choose to literally become a mouse, but we can choose how we behave toward animals.

Okay Rich - so you agree the mind/brain is comprised of the same physical substance as everything else and part of the same structure. So I come back to the original question: how does it create original motion amongst matter already in motion? And if it can, what exactly is directing that motion?

You speak a lot of the 'creative mind' without any explanation at all of what that is. Is it a specific part of the brain? Global consciousness? What is it and how does it 'direct' original particle motion to produce its desired effects in the physical world?

Oops - I meant to quote the whole last post..

Okay Rich - so you agree the mind/brain is comprised of the same physical substance as everything else and part of the same structure. So I come back to the original question: how does it create original motion amongst matter already in motion? And if it can, what exactly is directing that motion?[/quote

The mind is exactly what everyone experiences. It is real and it is what is creatingthe impetus to move in a direction by use of will. Will had to be considered fundamental. One can say there is a universal mind (analogous to an ocean) which has within it many minds (the waves in the ocean). — Mike Adams

Nothing there answers the question.

"The mind is exactly what everyone experiences." - which is what?

"t is what is creatingthe impetus to move in a direction by use of will." - how (scientifically/mechanically speaking) does it do that?

"t is what is creatingthe impetus to move in a direction by use of will." - how (scientifically/mechanically speaking) does it do that? — Mike Adams

Excellent question. How does physical matter cause desire, motivation, and purpose?

It is exactly, precisely what is happening. There are influences coming from all over the place (not just psychological) and then the mind makes a choice as to which direction to exert some willful energy. The choice manifests as an act of will in a direction. — Rich

This is a good explanation. We're constantly being influenced by good and bad.

CS Lewis made a similar argument about the difference between sickness and justice. If a man commits a crime because he is (psychologically) sick, then it is not an issue of justice, but rather treatment. Justice requires that a man be judged on his motivations and that he gets what he deserves as a consequence of his behavior. The concepts of justice and desert cannot be separated.

If we take away consideration of what is deserved, then we're no longer talking about justice, but sickness. I don't think anyone wants to be thought of as sick because they believe their choice is their own as an individual.